New to this... Need some help !

Discussion in 'RASC' started by darrencthomson, Feb 2, 2016.

  1. Thanks Steve for the insights.. I'm going to try to make some sense of Harry's records this week and will post up excepts where i'm struggling. I'll try to establish if he was with 522 all the way through the war. Harry was not from the NE of England, he hailed from Tottenham, London.

    Andy, just working my way through the war diary.. The movements on the 9th of September seem logical Hersselt -> Eynthout (Eindhout)... But then it mentions STEELEN (it seems like this is where they crossed the canal). I can't find any record of STEELEN at all on any maps. Anybody have any ideas ??

    On another track, i just found some old photos that my mum had that show Harry in Weurt, Holland in November, 1944. Seems like this little village may be where he stayed with a Dutch family (lots of pictures of them with him referring to them as "pop" and "mum".. Very affectionate). Anybody else have relatives who passed through Weurt towards the end of 1944 ? This was after the time of the (failed) Market Garden operation, i guess ? Fascinatingly, i can position "Street View" in Google Maps in exactly the spot where my grandads picture was taken on his motorbike (referenced by the church in the village which is still there).
     
  2. Ok, "Steelen" found (its now Stelen).. The attached is my best estimation as to where my grandad (with 9 DLI) would have crossed the bridgehead on the Albert Canal..
     

    Attached Files:

  3. dbf

    dbf Moderatrix MOD

    If you are interested, IWM have some interviews of 9DLI veterans.

    these are only a few links, there are others relating to that period, it's a matter of going through them and checking out the correct reel for any experiences they might relate from the period which relates to your grandfather's action

    http://www.iwm.org.uk/collections/item/object/80014573
    Harvey, Ernest (IWM interview)

    http://www.iwm.org.uk/collections/item/object/80016191
    Brooker, John Leonard (IWM interview)

    http://www.iwm.org.uk/collections/item/object/80010967
    Mallabar, Ronald (IWM interview)

    http://www.iwm.org.uk/collections/item/object/80012443
    Thompson, Thomas (IWM interview)
     
  4. Thanks for that, i'll have a listen..

    OK, my granddads records show him being part of either "50 Div", "522 Coy" or both from 20/11/1940 (Granted W.P.P and admitted to "CRS Cossington") until 1946..

    So... What is my best bet for getting detailed accounts of 522 Companies movements throughout the war ?

    Anybody know what Cossington was ? A hospital ?

    Thanks again for all of the help.. You guys are amazing !
     
  5. Looks like first active duty is when he embarks on the 21/5/1941 to the "middle-east"... Egypt by the July of 1941, Cyprus after that (looks like he was in hospital there).. Then Palestine, then sicily, then italy, then UK (on leave - awarded Africa Star), then "NW Europe" on June 6, 1944 (Now, there's a date i recognise !).

    Do you think this means that he would have been part of the D-Day landings ?
     
  6. Correction.. He disembarked for NW Europe on the 10th June, 1944.. So after D-Day..
     
  7. dbf

    dbf Moderatrix MOD

    but still a very early part of Op Overlord
    See this thread by Mike/Trux for roles of RASC http://ww2talk.com/forums/topic/23787-royal-army-service-corps-introduction/


    522 Coy, RASC, War Diaries from http://www.arcre.com/wdsearch#sthash.vcEV2i1L.dpuf

    WO 169/4274 Royal Army Service Corps (RASC) 522 Company1942 May
    WO 169/6051 522 Company1942 Jan.- Dec.
    WO 169/11943 522 Company1943 Jan.- Sept.
    WO 171/2481 522 Company1944 June- Dec. [as linked earlier]
    WO 171/6301 522 Company1945 Jan.-Dec.
    WO 171/9832 522 Company1946 Jan., Feb.


    There was a previous query about a Cossington on the forum, unfortunately it remains unanswered http://ww2talk.com/forums/topic/14943-ramc/

    CRS = Casualty Reception Station http://ww2talk.com/forums/topic/57875-what-does-crs-stand-for/


    Usually the best results at deciphering records are achieved when they are shared by way of attachment etc, so that those who have most experience can get to see the original.
    There would be no need to start a new thread, but have a look at this dedicated sub-forum for some examples and for some useful 'pinned' threads.
    http://ww2talk.com/forums/forum/116-service-records/
     
  8. Steve Mac

    Steve Mac Very Senior Member

    Morning Darren,

    So he joined 522nd Company, RASC, after they returned to the UK from service with th BEF in France/Belgium.

    His likely movements would have been UK, Egypt, Cyprus, Palestine, Iraq, Palestine, Western Desert (Egpyt & Libya) including the 2nd Battle of El Alamein (all of 1942 and early 1943), Tunisia (to the end of the fighting in North Africa in May 1943), Egypt (to prepare for Sicily), Sicily (Operation Husky - where 50 Div were an assault Division at Avola), UK (in November 1943 to prepare for D-Day), D-Day (assault Division on Gold Beech) and NW Europe. His arrival in NW Europe would have been delayed as there would not be a lot of need for lorries in a beach assault on 6 June 1944.

    Interested that he was in Italy. The only part of 50 Div that I previously new was part of the assault on Italy was 231st Infantry Brigade; 1st Bn Hampshire Regiment, 1st Bn Dorsetshire Regiment and 2nd Bn Devenshire Regiment, who were new to the Division.

    Best,

    Steve.
     
  9. Hey Steve

    I think you are close to nailing his movements... That will allow me to research 522's specific actions.. Thank you.

    However, Harry's records are confusing around the time that 522 moved from Palestine.. Take a look at the attached.. I'm finding it hard to decipher much of this sheet:

    1. Theres a gap between 8-11-41 and 23-2-43.. What happened ? The 2nd Battle of El Alamein ? Why isn't this documented ? Looks like he got sick after this (we think that he got Malaria)
    2. Around Sept/Nov 1943, it looks to me like he went from Sicily to Italy.. Are you reading that the same way ?
    3. Look like preparations for D-Day started around November, 43. Does that sound correct ?

    What do you think about the Italy thing (based on this sheet) ?

    Making progress.. This is very exciting !

    Darren
     

    Attached Files:

  10. Owen

    Owen -- --- -.. MOD

    29.5.43 he is Taken on Strength from 522 Coy to HQ RASC 50 Div

    (he left 522 on that date)

    looking at 522 Coy from that date on will lead you up a blind alley, he wasnt with them.
     
  11. dbf

    dbf Moderatrix MOD

    Admitted Hospital & SOS xii 23.3.43
    Discharged Hospital & TOS 28.2.43

    http://www.scarletfinders.co.uk/112.html

    For explanation of "Xii" list - see http://ww2talk.com/forums/topic/15663-x-lists-service-records/?p=177016


    .
    As Owen notes, he doesn't seem to have been with 522 Coy RASC the whole time - designations being HQ RASC 50 Div, CRASC 50 Div
    (SOS -struck off strength; TOS - taken on strength: terms used to denote transfer from one unit to another)



    Have you looked through the rest of the papers to see if there are any references which might offer clues to the period between 8-11-41 and 23-2-43 ?
     
  12. Steve Mac

    Steve Mac Very Senior Member

    Hello Darren,

    On leaving Cyprus for Palestine, 50 Div had to leave its spanking new transport and other kit behind for an Indian Division that replaced it, inheriting the Indian Division's dilapidated transport/kit (Which had been left in Palestine). The transport had been used in the fighting in Eritrea and in the Western Desert and was not fit for purpose. Consequently, when 50 Div was given orders to move to Iraq it could only manage transport for two brigades, the 69th (5th East Yorkshire Regiment, and 6th & 7th Bns Green Howards) and the 151st. The 150th Infantry Brigade (4th East Yorkshire Regiment, and 4th & 5th Bns Green Howards) were instead sent back to the Western Desert.

    I don't think a move within the same theatre of operations, e.g. Palestine to Iraq to Palestine and then to Egypt, by road would be noted in his records. Where exactly he was during this period you will only probably find out from the appropriate War Diary(s). He would have most likely been wherever 50 Div were and that includes the 2nd Battle of El Alamein (the famous one). The 151st Infantry Brigade were one of two infantry brigades involved in Operation Supercharge (the other was from the 51st (Highland) Division), the attack during the El Alamein battle that finally broke the Axis defences and sent them scuttling backwards...

    Owen is right about your grandfather's transfer: "29.5.43 he is Taken on Strength from 522 Coy to HQ RASC 50 Div". Same Division, different unit. This transfer was just after the end of the North African campaign and just prior to Operation Husky (the invasion of Sicily); which he was involved in.

    On the matter of Italy, he was only there for one day before returning to Sicily. Bizarre. Given there was a war on I don't think he was a day tripper...

    50 Div did return to the UK in November 1943 to prepare for D-Day. They were based out in East Anglia.

    If you want good reading on what 50 Div did in WWII, look for a book called 'The Path of the 50th (Ewart Clay)'. The 50 Div was the most experienced and battle hardened British Infantry Division in WWII, winning four Victoria Crosses. There is unlikely to be a book about the RASC units your grandfather served in, albeit you may find snippets/memoirs online. But best reading for specific about the units he served with will probably be the RASC units War Diaries.

    Best,

    Steve.
     
    stolpi likes this.
  13. Thanks, Owen.. But i didn't show you the whole picture.. next sheet (attached) shows him with 522 COY again by end of 1944.. I'm interested here is the entry around June '44 that begins, "Posted to RASC Sec 149.....". What do you think ?

    He was obviously attached to 9DLI by Sept 44, baed on his commendation (discussed above).
     

    Attached Files:

  14. Thanks, Steve... I think that i thorough look at what 50 Div were up to through the war is in order.. His records definitely have him in 50th for the duration. I'll get reading !

    Could you give me some sense as to the size (no's of troops) that would typical make up a "division" vs "company" vs "unit" etc.. Just trying to get a sense of scale here..
     
  15. dbf

    dbf Moderatrix MOD

    What the transfers in and out of 522 Coy mean is that the war diaries i listed earlier for them won't all be relevant and that you'll have to cross reference the dates he was serving with the diaries available. You were asking how to track his progress through the war, and i'm afraid this'll now mean checking out different diaries.
     
  16. The commendation note mentions "HQ CRASC 50 Transport Column"... Is this part of the 50 Division ?
     
  17. OK, the more i look at these records, the more i'm drawn to the following..

    17/7/44 (ie a month after the Normandy landings)

    "Posted to RASC Sec 149. Amb RAMC SOS this unit ---" (can't read the final word).

    I think that this is important because it would affect where he was as he progress through Belgium and up into Holland..

    Can anybody shed any light ?

    "The Path of the 50th" on order, Steve. Thanks for that.
     
  18. Owen

    Owen -- --- -.. MOD

    can you make the image a bit bigger please.
    bit hard to read. same dimensions as the other sheet you posted would be good. cheers.
     
  19. RAMC is Medical Corp... He was driving a ambulance over the Albert Canal with 9 DLI.. The line under this one for 2-10-44 says,
    "----- from RASC sec 149 Amb RAMC"...

    Confused !
     
  20. Owen

    Owen -- --- -.. MOD

    see here
    http://ww2talk.com/forums/topic/23794-royal-army-medical-corps/

    Field Ambulance had RASC chaps in them.
    He was a driver after all.
     
    stolpi likes this.

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