Hello, Wondering if anyone can help me out regarding one of the gliders used in Normandy. I'm trying to find some information out about one marked "5" with the chalk graffiti "Churchill's Reply"/"Cymru Am Byth". It's seen a couple of photos out there which appear to of been photographed at different times/days as it's position changes and the units in the photos are different. What I'm trying to establish is: a) What was it's serial number and chalk number? I've seen a few on the Ranville LZ with single digit chalk number but my understanding is that apart from a few, the gliders had a 3 digit number as per the Form B. b) Can anyone confirm which of the operations it was it part of and when did it land? c) Who were the pilots and what was it carrying? At the moment my highest priority is to try and figure out the glider serial number which is tantalizing visible in some pictures but not clear enough to read. I even flew 1500 miles to go to the IWM image library to view the original but they only had a 8x8cm print and it was even worse that the copies I've seen in books. I've seen that there was a colour profile of the glider painted that alludes to show a serial but I've never see a clear enough copy of it to be able to read it. I've seen the following photos labelled differently in various books but the most descriptive one says it came to rest against the wall of Mrs Le Motts's garden near Amfreville and was part of Op. Mallard and was towed from Broadwell by F/O Wright and carrying men of the 1 Royal Ulster Rifles. Any help gratefully received! First pic from IWM. Purports to show the 1 RUR outside the glider just after landing. Second picture, glider is in the background and the serial is *almost* visible in the rear of the fuselage bands. Third picture, same glider which appears to of been pushed back. Taken 8th June with 1st Special Service Brigade dug in in front.
HighTow, Having seen them many times before I'm embarrassed to say I didn't realize that it was the same horsa in all 3 photos. If no one here can help and all else fails you might consider purchasing a better resolution pic from the IWM. There's no guarantee but the serial on the middle pic may show up. You can buy digital versions (300 dpi) that are delivered to your email. It should be vastly superior to the 8 cm one you viewed Your mention of a "colour profile" (?) had me looking through a few paintings by Albert Richards. One of his clearly shows a serial, but it's not the same craft. As for single digit CNs there's a IWM pic showing a "3" and others, of course, showing two digits. Hopefully someone will come along with more info. A few Welsh chaps on that glider I would think ... Regards ...
Cee. As I said I tried the IWM and looked at several copies of the middle photo they had in their image library and none were particularly clear which was a surprise. I don't know if the large format original has been lost or in another archive somewhere but none of the ones the IWM had were much good. The colour profile I refer to is this one: http://www.shropshiremagazine.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/10/nov08-horsae.jpg I've seen it as a nice lithoprint in a couple places, I think Middle Wallop has one on the back wall. I've walked pasted it a few times years ago and remember it but at the time, had no reason to look more carefully. It appears to show a serial but if it's correct, I don't know but it would be something to go on.
Hope this may help. However, Peter Cappon, Archivist MAF, has said that the Museum does hold records about Operation Mallard, possibly showing Chalk Nos. of the gliders who took part. Peter remembers only just recently reading information about Operation Mallard: he has suggested therefore that Jon Black get in touch with him direct via his personal e-mail address at the MAF as follows: archivist@flying-museum.org.uk or gives him a ring on 01264-784421 http://www.ww2talk.com/forum/airborne/46157-colour-footage-ww2-glider-take-offs-6.html
Hi, Had a look at a few books I have and the best images I could find show the serial as ??773. As Cee said, I would purchase a 8 X 10 inch, or larger, hard copy from the original IWM negative. Once you have the photo scan it in high resolution. I have done this with various landing craft photos and had good results. The location is on the D514 at Le Haute Ecarde, Western end of LZ N. Unfortunately it looks like you cannot make an exact comparison due to the foliage. Will check the photos that I took in the area and see if I have any that show the wall. Regards Danny
DannyM, Thanks for the feedback. I had actually guessed that's where the glider had come down but your picture confirms it. Nice to know at last. Sadly all the really high resolution aerial and oblique photos I have on Ranville that particular spot is just out of shot. Regarding the serial - I've ordered and A4 print and I just *pray* that I do get a decent one from the original negative and not the crappy reproduction that were in their albums. Taking a second look at the photo I'm inclined to think it might be LH22? which would be about right as it's a valid Horsa I serial range for the period and there are plenty of other LH gliders used during the op. It can't be 77 as LH77? would of put it in the middle of a cancelled production batch.
HighTow, Out of curiosity and inspired by Danny I went looking to see if I could find any modern day evidence of the break in the wall. I'll include a couple of grabs. As you can see the wall is not in the best of shape, but if you look carefully towards the centre right you'll see what appears to be a concrete patch. Messing about with some filters in a photo program the only digit/letter that is semi recognizable is an "H" and thought like yourself it was a LH number. Not much new there ... Is there a reason for your interest in this particular glider? Regards ...
Hi, Paradata has a good aerial photo showing this area. I have purchased aerial photos from them in the past covering this area but do not have this one. Good service from them. Thanks for that other shot Cee. Attached is the best image I could get of the code. Regards Danny
HighTow, The glider was on Operation Mallard the gliders of the 1st (Airborne) Royal Ulster Rifles were towed by 512 Squadron from Broadwell airfield at 18.45 and flown by pilots from F Squadron No. 2 Wing Glider Pilot Regiment and landed around 21.00 hrs. It could be any pair of pilots from F Squadron, there were 37 crews, there are some options below from F Squadron GPR for Operation Mallard excluding Capt. Thomas & Sgt. Guthrie, who were towed by S/Ldr. Rae as Chalk Number 1 but also S/Sgt. Howard and Sgt. Holman who were carrying elements of 1st Platoon C Company Royal Ulster Rifles which landed on the airfield in Chalk Number 27. Chalk Number 5 was towed by S/Ldr. Southgate with Co-Pilot F/Lt. Saunders, Navigator F/Lt. Bryant & Wireless Operator F/O. Parry in Dakota KG.314 C1, the glider landed in the wall opposite Le Haute Ecarde. S/Sgt. ALAN, D./ Sgt. WILLIAMSON, K.R. S/Sgt. APPLETON, F./ Sgt. SEAMAN? F.G S/Sgt. ATKINS, W./ Sgt. READ, N. S/Sgt. BAXTER, G./ Sgt. JOHNSON, A.W. Sgt. BENNET, J. /S/Sgt. REDWAY, G. S/Sgt. BINNINGTON, G.L./ Sgt. GARRARD, W. Sgt. BINNS, A./ S/Sgt. DURHAM, C.W. S/Sgt. BOTTOMLEY, K./ Sgt. MEAD, K. Sgt. BOWDEN, S./ S/Sgt. HOPE, R. Sgt. BRADBEER, A./ Sgt. BROOKSMITH, E. Sgt. BRUCE, R.C./ Capt. PLOWMAN, T.A.(MID) Sgt. BRYANT, P./ S/Sgt. CHAPMAN, A. Sgt. CASSWELL, T./ Sgt. GRACE, L. Sgt. COOMBER, H./ Sgt. RICHARDS, A.E. Sgt. DANCE, F./ S/Sgt. FAIRGRIEVES, J. Sgt. DELAHUNTY, F./ Sgt. GUSTARD, H. Sgt. EDGE, C./ S/Sgt. FIRTH, E.H. S/Sgt. FORD, H./ Sgt. WITHINGTON, T. Sgt. GORDON, C./ S/Sgt. MATHER, W. Sgt. GOSNEY, R./ S/Sgt. PENNICOTT, F. Sgt. HARGREAVES, F./ S/Sgt. HILL, E. Sgt. HOLE, C./ Lt. STEVENS, R.B. Sgt. JENNER, A./ Sgt. YOUNG, L. Sgt. KIFF, L.T./ Sgt. SULLIVAN, F. Sgt. MAIL, J./ Lt. TREHARNE, A.A. Sgt. MANN, T./ Sgt. PAGET, C. Sgt. MAUGHAN, A./ Sgt. WILSON, P. S/Sgt. NORBURY, R./ Sgt. WHITMORE, F.W. S/Sgt. PRINCE, E./ Sgt. REDDING, F. Sgt. SHOVEL, R./ S/Sgt. TARBITTEN, J. Lt. SPENCE, R.E./ Sgt. SPROTT, H. Sgt. TAYLOR, B.S./ S/Sgt. TAYLOR, J.B. S/Sgt. TAYLOR, J.H./ Sgt. TODD, P.L. S/Sgt. TIGER, J./ Sgt. WHITE, K. S/Sgt. WALLACE, D.B./ Sgt. MOSS, G. brithm P.S. The only code I could find for LH22_ was LH224, this help? Could the picture be turned to a negative format so as to highlight the number on the glider. Not sure if that might help.
Looks like PK773, but is PW773 "206 Airspeed Horsa Is delivered between February and April 1944 by Harris Lebus and assembled from components from various sub-contractors"
All, Thanks for the help overnight. Seems like I'm getting close to solving this. Not much new there ... Is there a reason for your interest in this particular glider? Ongoing project. I'm more into technical aspects of gliders, etc. and have been writing a short essay/article on camouflage schemes/markings the Horsa carried during it's 10 years of service. I chose this glider to illustrate one (of three) used during D-Day as it's one of the few where photos show the serial, chalk mark and graffiti clearly enough to correlate them. With others you usually get one but not the others. Hi, Attached is the best image I could get of the code. Thanks for that. It's definitely 773 just need to figure out the first two letters. Hopefully the IWM print will make it clearer. Looks like PK773, but is PW773 "206 Airspeed Horsa Is delivered between February and April 1944 by Harris Lebus and assembled from components from various sub-contractors" Except that contract, 1663, was for Horsa II's according to my list and this is a Horsa I... That said, I'm starting to have some doubts about the accuracy of the lists. Looks like one gets it wrong and the others quote it. Needs more checking.
From David Orr & David Truesdale's book 'The Rifles Are There' p.123 At 21.02 hrs, the Horsa carrying 18 Platoon, B Company came to a halt against a brick wall after hurtling across a landing zone still covered in anti-glider poles that tore a huge hole in the wing. As Lieutenant Michael 'Mickey' Archdale, born and bred in Hampshire, emerged from the glider he met up with Lord Lovat, commander of the 1st Special Service Brigade. Lovat described the situation as 'sticky', probably an unneccessary comment as mortar bombs were peppering the landing zone Lt. Michael Mervyn Lyon Archdale K.I.A. 25th June, 1944 Was missing and is commemorated on the Bayeux memorial Panel, 'Archdale Close' in Bournemouth was named after him in the 1960's/70's as part of a programme of commemoration of those killed in WWII. brithm
Hi, Neg of the scan. Danny View attachment 96840 Danny, Great negative shot, I would not have been able to make out the number without the photo. Nice one brithm
Well done guys, Hopefully HighTow gets a decent quality print that shows the number clearly. The IWM says that pic taken on June 6th shows troops believed to be with the RUR HQ. I would think the RUR would have left the area fairly quickly. According to the war diary Bn HQ was established in Le Bas de Ranville at 2230. The fact that Lovat was met almost as soon as they left the glider would indicate the 1 SS Brigade HQ was in the immediate area. Regards ...
Hi, CEE, according to the War Diary HQ 1st Special Service brigade arrived at Le Haute Ecarde at 16.00 hrs on 6th June. Moved to Le Plein on 7th June at 18.00 hrs. Brithm, I had forgotten about changing the photo to a negative to get a different view. Thanks for reminding me and adding the LZ photos. It has been an interesting thread. HighTow, could you let us know if you have your essay published in a magazine. I would be interested in reading it. Regards Danny
Thanks Danny, Whoever they are they seem well dug in. Perhaps HighTow's print will pick up a shoulder patch or other insignia. According to IWM two of the photos were taken by Sgt. Law on June 6th, the other by Sgt. Chrstie on June 8th. There are other horsas around the boundary as well. It's hard to tell if the rubble wall extended that far east in June 1944. Today the back part of that property is farm land and may have been surrounded by a hedge in 44? Regards ...
Chaps, Thanks again for all your help. I'll certainly let you know if anyone pics up the essay for print. The plan was just to file a copy with the library at Middle Wallop (That have a couple of my other essays) and the IWM at Hendon for anyone doing research. I thought I might see if The Eagle would run it but not sure if they'll allow it as I don't own the copyright to the photos it references - always the problem with articles in the commercial press. It's been an interesting project. If "Churchill's" reply does end up being PW773 then that turns the long held belief that it was a Horsa Mk II on it's head. Likewise I've discovered a Horsa bearing a serial that was apparently never allocated. All fun stuff...
Ello, The picture arrived from the IWM so following up my own thread. Quality wasn't as nice as I would of expected but after a bit of work in Photoshop to sharpen up tweak the contrast and I can confirm the serial is PW773. This is interesting in itself, because it contradicts the published works all the way back from "Airspeed Aircraft Since 1931" to "British Military Aircraft Serials" of today which states that it was allocated to a Horsa II. Second thing, some people asked about insignia's on the chaps in the photo. They are very unclear and the angle of some of their arms distorts the shape but the chap in the centre, under the wing to the left of the chap on the blower appears to have a combined ops patch on his arm. Does this give some credence to them being 1st SSB? It certainly seems to be the same badge as in this photo: https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/f/f9/1stspecairforcenormandy.jpg Oh speaking of the above photo - three chaps digging in against the wall under the tail of the glider. The two on the left look a lot like German POWs, exactly like the guys on the roof of the jeep.
