Operation Mars - Zhukov's greatest defeat

In V.P's thread about CALM discussion I alluded to the fact that the Eastern Front had a number of operations that have been overlooked by Students of the Conflict. here is a link to an article about one of them, Operation Mars, an offensive by the Soviets to destroy the Rzhev salient. It failed and also cost them dearly too and is an excellent example of how the Red Army in 1942 and its commanders still had a lot to learn. Here is the link and I hop you enjoy reading it:

http://fmso.leavenworth.army.mil/documents/countrpt/countrpt.htm

 

what I wondered about when I read this was why the Germans didnt make more of the victory? I know Stalingrad was in full swing but it was unlike goebbels to miss an opportunity to play up the superiority of the Wehrmacht.

 

Interesting stuff Gotthard!

 

I have David Glantz's book on this battle. It was one of Walther Model's better moments on defense.

 

I have David Glantz's book on this battle. It was one of Walther Model's better moments on defense.
Yes. This was where he started to earn his reputation as "Hitler's Fireman". He put this experience to good use when he took charge of what was left of the German line after Bagration or when he took charge in the West.

 

As this is a Soviet defeat I don't want to hear about it

 

what I wondered about when I read this was why the Germans didnt make more of the victory? I know Stalingrad was in full swing but it was unlike goebbels to miss an opportunity to play up the superiority of the Wehrmacht.

I think the enormity of the Stalingrad disaster put many other battles into the shadows.

And don't forget that while Stalingrad was raging, so was Alamein, Torch, the race to Tunis, and the German Navy's disaster at the Barents Sea. Busy months at the FHQ.

 

I think the enormity of the Stalingrad disaster put many other battles into the shadows.

And don't forget that while Stalingrad was raging, so was Alamein, Torch, the race to Tunis, and the German Navy's disaster at the Barents Sea. Busy months at the FHQ.
All the more reason to bring up a victory to boost morale! I do agree though, Christmas 1942 was not the most optimal for the fuehrer.

 

All the more reason to bring up a victory to boost morale! I do agree though, Christmas 1942 was not the most optimal for the fuehrer.

Normally, I would agree with you. In fact, later in the war, German generals would do just that when briefing the Fuhrer. They would gloss over a major debacle by giving Hitler an extensive report on a small incident of courage, like some Volkssturm or Hitler Youth guy knocking out three T-34/85s with his Panzerfausts. That would put Hitler in a good mood and enable them to get through another report of defeat.

Goebbels' propaganda crew echoed the same thing...they would broadcast the announcement that some HJ kid had knocked out five Shermans near Aschaffenberg as if the Americans had been hurled back to Paris, again trying to obscure the horrible realities.

But in 1942 all that was in the future. The Wehrmacht was used to winning battle after battle. Defeat, and a brace of major and shocking defeats, was something new to Hitler and his court. Victories they often took in stride. They probably saw the sudden tide of defeat as a major aberration, and were more concerned with stanching this flow than celebrating another win.

My feeling is that Mars was simply obscured by the titanic scale of Torch, Alamein, and Stalingrad.

But it did a lot for Model.

 

I agree, Kiwiwriter, Göbbels had his hands too full with Stalingrad, El Alamein, Op. Torch, all within the same timeframe, to blare he horn at what was a confused battle in the middle of no place. Even if it was a victory, it did not look too photogenic in the swamps and woods .

 

I agree, Kiwiwriter, Göbbels had his hands too full with Stalingrad, El Alamein, Op. Torch, all within the same timeframe, to blare he horn at what was a confused battle in the middle of no place. Even if it was a victory, it did not look too photogenic in the swamps and woods .

You know, that's an interesting point...if you really study the German newsreel footage and compare it with British and American footage, you can see the difference between democratic ideas and Nazi ideas.

The German newsreels focus heavily on the glory and triumph of the Nazi war machine...goose-stepping troops, Stukas, artillery, tanks blasting along, victory parades.

The British and American combat footage, by comparison, focuses more on ordinary men slogging their way through the difficult situations. Very little glory or triumphalism, and a lot more dirt and grit.

The Germans did go with more dirt and grit as the war droned on, and they were in retreat, to show how heroically the Landsers were defending the homeland. You don't see too many worn-out Landsers until late in the war.

Bill Mauldin was a product of a democracy. You couldn't have a Bill Mauldin in Germany. Or "Willie and Joe."

 

You know, that's an interesting point...if you really study the German newsreel footage and compare it with British and American footage, you can see the difference between democratic ideas and Nazi ideas.

The German newsreels focus heavily on the glory and triumph of the Nazi war machine...goose-stepping troops, Stukas, artillery, tanks blasting along, victory parades.

The British and American combat footage, by comparison, focuses more on ordinary men slogging their way through the difficult situations. Very little glory or triumphalism, and a lot more dirt and grit.

The Germans did go with more dirt and grit as the war droned on, and they were in retreat, to show how heroically the Landsers were defending the homeland. You don't see too many worn-out Landsers until late in the war.

Bill Mauldin was a product of a democracy. You couldn't have a Bill Mauldin in Germany. Or "Willie and Joe."

Agree. Another example would be all the fuss and the hype surrounding the German war heroes (KC holders and such). Such an emphasizis on individual performance was quite surprising in a totalitarian state. On the other hand, we must recognize that Max Wunsch or Jochen Peiper are way better poster boys than the average Helmut.

 

It is a good article Owen and its amazing that when we talk about the Eastern Front we tend to concentrate on a small number of important battles rather than some of the smaller battles. Incidentally a "small" battle on the Eastern Front would probably be bigger than a lot of Western Conflicts. Thats not a dig at the Western Front by any means but its necessary if we are to talk about the East to realise the enormity of the Battles.

When talking about the East most westerners will talk about the "Big Battles" such as Stalingrad, Moscow, Kharkov, Kursk and Bagration. Some of the lesser known battles e.g. The Soviet Counter-Offensives in 1941, the Battle for Kiev, The Minsk and Smolensk pockets, the liberation of South Ukraine, the taking of Poland and East/West Prussia. All of these are rarely discussed and I shall endevour to try and put some info up on these Battles so we may talk about them!

 

Owen, the Courland pocket is a good place to start and if you have someone who is from that area they can be a mine of information.