Hi, Can anyone pls help on the detail organisation (composition/ ORBAT) of army and LoC level troops of British army in North West European theatre? More specifically, types of units including their numbers (may be upto platoon level) of rac, ra, re, rsigs, rasc, raoc, ramc,reme, rmp etc units in army and LoC organization. (For an example, as army troops, RE having X number of army troops RE where each army troops RE having Z number of field companies). Any book, web-links suggestions are also appreciated. I went through thrux thread of this forum, but I did not get any clear picture on the composition of rac, ra, re, rsigs, rasc, ramc, raoc, reme, rmp, intelligence etc. units in army and LoC level organisation. Regards Shams
Shams, I think you have found what others have found in the past. The organisation of army and LoC is so vast and complex, and constantly changing that a complete picture is very difficult to visualise. There was no set establishment for these organisations. Most of the services used a 'plug in' system where a headquarters was established to administer such units as were required/desired/available. At the Army, Army Group, GHQ, LoC Headquarters there were staffs for each arm and service and they are all clearly listed. At the other end of the scale the establishments for individual units under the higher headquarters are available, but there are hundreds of them. But I hope you find what you are looking for. I would love to see it. The 'Administration History of 21 Army Group in Europe' will give insights but no simple answer. I have a paper copy (150 pages plus maps and diagrams) but there was a digital version available from MLRS, and an online version but I cannot recall how to find it. Mike
As Mike says once you get past Divisions and Brigades orbats get somewhat hazy. I found this Canadian report most helpful in getting an idea of the shape of Corps and Army Troops. Thing to remember is that it discusses the situation up to late 1943 rather than through the campaign in Northwest Europe. DHH - CMHQ Report Details Also Volume III of the Official History of the Canadian Army in the Second World War (The Victory Campaign) includes a very detailed list of Canadian forces in NWE through 1944-45. It is available as a PDF online. The Canadian Army largely used British unit organisation, but not entirely, and it was rejigged slightly even then, so they provide a good comparison for British units, if not the detailed picture. Gary
Thanks Mike and Gary. I have prepared arms and service wise (RAC, RA, RE RSigs, RASC etc.) tables where rows are the unit name and columns are the number of such unit in army, LoC, corps, Inf div, armd div, mtn div, indep inf bde, indep tank bde etc. But I thought there may be tables or flowcharts or some other diagrams available for the distribution of units in army and LoC level. I will share these tables very soon. Just converting them into digitalized form (in Microsoft Word). Gary, CMHQ report in pdf is helpful. By the way, Mike, is MLRS reliable weblink to buy book please? Regards Shams
Shams, I bought a few books ten years or so ago and discs two or three years ago. I am very low tech and have never bought a download. I found them reliable but I am not sure of their current status. A general enquiry on this forum might be a good idea. Mike
Shams My research is only post VE day and building a website slowly as there is a part of our history missing until the start of the “cold war”, you will find an order of battle down to brigade level up to 1948 Working on 1st Corps District first, however the army troops will be added later, as posted earlier life got very complicated and 2nd Army and 21st Army Group Troops were moved around as and when required and initially were only under divisional and brigade command for local administration, for the moment you will only find armoured, artillery and infantry units Supporting arms are “under construction”, have been purchasing copy documentation from Kew, thanks to Lee at ARCRE, so will do a “look up” for you if researching after May 1945, please send a private message Best of luck with your research 21st Army Group later British Army of the Rhine
I've used MLRS quite recently and didn't encounter any issues. At present they aren't providing books on disc, only PDF copies by download. Gary
Thanks Mike, Gary and Steve. Steve, your weblink is helpful, but I am looking for the establishment of army and LoC level troops during wwii.
Hi all, I dug into several online libraries over the years and found something very interesting and related to this thread. In Canadiana Heritage, there is a reel T-18729. In this reel, a couple of pages mention the "Composition of Infantry division, armoured divisions, corps troops, army and GHQ troops". Moreover, I found that it is a policy named "General Staff Policy statement no. 37". I have shared the pages below. However, in this statement RASC, RAMC, RAOC, CMP, Pay Units, and RE units are incomplete. Does anyone have any clue where will I get the complete listing of Basic Army and GHQ Troops, please?
