Hi all, a friend of mine has an oversmock (the attached picture). As I have no knowledge about para equipment, could someone explain what do the white and blue circles mean? thanks & regards, Ludo
Ludo, There is some information on DZ flashes in a post by brithm with a similar example of an oversmock with blue circle encircled by white. I thought it might be a 8th Parachute Battalion sign but Paradata has them adorned with a yellow disc? Drop Zone flashes of The British Airborne Forces Ben's 7th Parachute Battalion oversmock with DZ flash: Sergeant Fear No. 5678305 Regards ...
dear CEE, the oversmock is named after WILLIAMSON and was found at Brucourt. CN254 dropped its paras in the Brucourt area. and 7346477 S/Sgt WILLIAMSON was one of the passengers and CN254 was a 224 Field Para Ambulance stick attached to 8th Para Does it mean that the flash on S/Sgt Williamson oversmock would be the same as 8th Para? Regards, Ludo
Ludo, I see that entire stick (Section 2) of 224 PFA men was attached to the 8 Parachute Battalion. So it would make sense they would be wearing the DZ flash of 8 Para as their intended destination would be the same, DZ K. I went looking for A. Brown (brithm's document) amongst 8 Para names but couldn't find a good match. S/Sgt Williamson turns up in the book "Red Devils - The 224 Parachute Field Ambulance in Normandy". As you probably know there is quite a lengthy account of what became of his group before and after being captured. Your friend has a really interesting artifact from the D-Day drop. Regards ...
Hi Chuck, I have to say that those guys are interested in the artifacts for their $$ values more than their historical values.... I heard recently the story of Glider Pilot Jock BRAMAH helmet (CN69). It was bought 10€ at a car boot sale and when the guy realised what he had in hand he sold it at about 3500€...to an antique shop.... I don't like this personaly but in this world everything has a value... I would prefer thoses artifacts in museum. It would be better from the History perspective... but let's come back to the DZ flashes: 7th Para: triangle 8th Para: Circle what about the other battalions? 1st canadian Para 9th Para 12th Para 13th Para and what about the other units (engineers 591 Antrim and 3rd Squadron)... I know that very little is known about DZ flashes but let's look in our archives to have a better picture of all this. Regards, Ludo
Ludo, In the other thread member wtid45 says he has the book "Drop Zone Flashes of The British Airborne Forces" which contains some info on WW2 DZ flashes. I'm looking for the easy way forward here ... Regards ...
Here's a still showing men of the 5th Parachute Brigade HQ entering their transport at Harwell to take them to the Fairford Airfield as pointed out by brithm in the other thread. They are wearing an oversmock painted with a white square and cross. Regards ...
Hi, A couple of photos from Operation Varsity with DZ flashes similar to the one submitted by Ludo.The first from brithm's Twitter feed said to be taken by Pte. Bamber of 224 PFA. The second from Alex's Paradata link above showing men by an aircraft before takeoff. Note the tall slim figure to the right wearing a Reverend's collar. I am hoping it is Captain/Reverend J. W. Kenny (224 PFA) since we don't have a photo of him in the 6th Airborne Padre thread. Regards ...
I think the smock is 8th Parachute Battalion a similar smock appears in Olivier Richard's book The 6th Airborne from Normandy to the Baltic Pegasus 1944 found at Touffreville which is right next to 8 Para's Drop Zone K. I think it was Pte. T.E. Brown's from A Company, 8 Para, he was wounded on 16th June 1944. I think it confirms it is an 8 Para smock which No. 2 Section, 224th Parachute Field Ambulance was attached.
QUOTE="Cee, post: 797629, member: 19891"]Ludo, In the other thread member wtid45 says he has the book "Drop Zone Flashes of The British Airborne Forces" which contains some info on WW2 DZ flashes. I'm looking for the easy way forward here ... Regards ...[/QUOTE] Yes I do...and from Drop Zone Flashes of the British Airborne Forces by Charles A. Edwards I can offer this.
Ooooooops the description under the photo of the smock states that Operation Varsity was March 1944 TD
Hi wtid45, That's wonderful, thank you so much for the scans. I wasn't at all aware that some units used a 2"x2" square sewn to the right shoulder. Hopefully we can find more photos of DZ flashes. Regards ...
Ludo, I don't really know but it would make sense they remained the same? It appears with some units they were transitioning to the smaller DZ flash which became common postwar. My father, a platoon Sergeant, wore the DZ flash of the 7th Parachute Battalion on the Varsity drop. He wrote in one short account: "When we jump into action all Sergeants and Officers have a circle or half circle pointed above their regimental colours on their jumping jackets. This tells the guys who you are and that way we can make a fighting party together until we get to our particular battalions or company. I collected a few guys from A Company and proceed to our area." He mentions the half circle and regimental colour, which was green in 7 Para's case, but not the triangle, though I suspect it would have been the same. Attached is an enlarged photo (H 39064) of Paras during preparations before take off on the evening of June 5th, 1944. I always thought the Para in the middle of the foreground group was holding up a flag. If you look closely, however, there appears to be a tail attached at bottom. So perhaps an oversmock with a Pegasus symbol? unfortunately the IWM doesn't tell us much about the photo though it could be men from the 22nd Independent Parachute Company (Pathfinders)? Regards
Dear Chuck, You are right, on the picture there are 2 interesting details: in the background in the foreground the squadron code being 8Z this means we are at Harwell airfield with 295 Squadron And if not mistaken the sticks that flew from harwell with 295 Squadron were: 2 sticks: 22nd Independant Coy 1 stick: 9th Para 1 stick: 8 the Para 7 sticks: C Coy 1st Canadian Para Regards, Ludo
Dear all, another detail about S/Sgt Williamson oversmock. If you look closely on the tail you can see: would the two painted strips mean something? Regards, Ludo
Ludo, With that many units leaving from Harwell Airfield identifying that particular group might prove difficult. I just assumed they were Pathfinders. I'm not sure what those two stripes indicate on the Williamson oversmock. Regards ...
