I recently managed to acquire a more detailed section of my dad's P&V ledger, and one thing is really puzzling me. It appears that under the category 'ranks and ratings' that dad's rating changes on a regular basis. In the course of one calender year he appears to have been Acting signalman, signalman, ordinary signalman, telegraphist, ordinary seaman, JCP(?) FEA(?) and WSI(4). Most of this occurred while he was at HMS Golden Hind in Australia. This ran concurrently with spells aboard HMS Howe (even though he was attached to FONAS (Flag Officer Naval Air Stations). He also had a spell in sick bay at RNB Melbourne and included in remarks s the phrase 'Section A1'. Can anyone shed any light on this because right now every answer gives me ten more questions. Thanks
Hi mate, As you will be aware signalman and ordinary signalman are essentially the same - ordinary rate. Telegraphist was just the sparks side of the job as opposed to the bunting or signals. So unless he dabbled in both then probably a typo. When I served, mid 70s as a sparks, I did a small ships course to do bunting work for sweepers. Haven't got a clue about the others you mention but could you post a copy please just so another pair of eyes can get on it. Regards Hugh
JCP, FEA and WSI(4) are I think all to do with Pay and Allowances. The only one I am certain of is WSI which is War Service Increment. FEA could be Far East Allowance, but I don't really know. Tim Edit: WSI (4) was 2/- per day.
Hugh the docs are printed on A3 so I will have to get it done at my local Internet cafe the day after Boxing day. There are quite a few items on there that may be of interest, so I may just press them to release a page for 1943. On the plus side at least I know that he served aboard HMS Howe early 1945, which is a damn sight more than I did before
So did I! After a brief phone call with a researcher at Swadlincote I learned that the biggest problem in sending the full pages of the P and V ledger was simply the logistics of getting the huge ledger onto the photocopier. If that is the case then hundreds, possibly thousands of families could be being denied the chance to pour over their relatives' records in detail because it appears to be too much trouble...
Hi Hugh. I have scanned the two pages that I have been given, one for 1944 and the other for 1945. I hope that somebody on here can help de-cipher some of the War Office Gobbledygook on here. I am particularly intrigued by the mention of Gareloch which, if memory serves me, was for years the location of the Ballistic Missile base at Faslane! Sure no such devices were in play back then. Thanks in anticipation, Steve. BTW Not sure what the first upload is, if anything at all
Faslane still is the submarine base on the Clyde but during WW2, Gareloch was a naval base. Had a quick look at the attachments but will have a more detailed look in the next few days when I have some time. Regards Hugh
Hi Popeye, Sorry but I think you are completely misreading these extracts from P&V Ledgers. These are extracts from Establishment Ledgers, they are not personal. The only info which applies to your Dad is that which is on his horizontal line. Most of the info refers to other people but their names have been covered over. If Hugh doesn't get back to you soon I'll have a go at interpreting the entries. Only one that immediately sprang from the pages was 'G', which meant he got his rum issue!! Tim
Having looked at the P and V ledger again I can see what you mean. Another dead end. Not sure how much more of this I can take to be honest. I think that the guy I spoke to on the phone should have made it abundantly clear what he was sending me, as I was led to believe that the extract was from HIS P and V ledger, and that what was being sent was more conclusive. The reality is that I am now back to square one
Popeye Naval Records for ww2 were only kept for pay purposes as they had more important things to worry about then family researching 60 years later, also the sailor was given his full record on discharge, unfortunately most of these were either binned or lost, Regards James
I get that entirely James. I just find it bizarre that nobody, and I mean absolutely nobody, seems to know what this Bloody RN Unit at Hendon was or what it did. That has absolutely nothing to do with my Dad's records or for that matter, anyone else's
I am afraid Tim is correct and the P & V information does not given any information to move your research onward. James, Hendon is mentioned in the P & V record, not sure if it is on the service record.
Popeye. PAVL 1. Just in case you hadn't noticed your Dad was taken onto the books of the Establishment to which this P&A refers on 10 May from HMS Royal Arthur. This was the former Butlins Holiday Camp at Skegness and a RN Communications training centre during the war. Also at the same time your Dad was transferred to RN Unit Hendon, other Signalmen are shown as being transferred to RN Units at Leeds and Letchworth. These were all airfields. I would think that (as you have indicated on another thread in this forum) that your Dad was somehow involved with inter-Service communications on D-Day. I see there are now several threads on this forum concerning your Dad, you may consider having them all merged onto the one thread to make it easier for others to help. Tim
Since someone mentioned grog, here's a small part of the Admiralty Instructions etc. on the subject (applicable in November 1943.) Grog money was twenty-one shillings a quarter. "(Article 1827 ). Spirit Ration A daily ration of 1/8 pint of spirit, or an allowance in lieu ( grog money, see 1832 ), is allowed to persons victualled on standard rations and messing allowance, or on the general mess system, or in receipt of victualling allowance, except as follows:- (a) No person is to receive a spirit ration in kind, or grog money in lieu, until he is 20 years of age. (b) No officers are entitled to the issue of a spirit ration ( except under the special arrangements referred to in clause 4 and in Article 1825, clause 11), or an allowance in lieu. c) The spirit ration is not to be issued to naval ratings serving in hospitals or hospital ships; nor to Royal Marines at R.M. divisions or the Depot, R.M. These men are to receive grog money in lieu, if entitled ( see 1832.)" Good health to one and all.
I think merging the threads would be a great idea. Is that done by admins? I wouldn't have a scooby how to do it myself. Dad did his basic at Royal Arthur in 1939 and seems to have gone back on a couple of occasions from 1943 to 1944. With regard to the inter-service liaison work, he did mention flying in a Miles Messenger and being allowed to take the controls. He was under the impression that the pilot was just being a good sport and letting him experience the thrill of flying, until he dug out a flask with some tea in it!
Not sure if I mentioned this before, but having spoken to somebody at Swadlincote, it appears that whatever the 'RN Unit Hendon' was, it only ever had 50 people there at any one time. All were ratings (no officers) and of thjose only five were senior rates.
