PEARL HARBOR, CHURCHILL & JN-25: An Expose' of Allied Codebreaking in Pacific Theater in WWII.

Discussion in 'War Against Japan' started by Christos, Nov 30, 2007.

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  1. Christos

    Christos Discharged

    Good Evening to all!! Tonight, it is my great pleasure to present to you an article, the shock waves of which have yet to truly be felt....but that is only a matter of time.....so sit down with a cup of the faithful brown! As always, my personal comments are denoted with ***asterisks.....Hope you find the following informative and enjoyable!!

    INTRODUCTION
    When historian James M. Macpherson published his general history of the American Civil War, "Battle Cry of Freedom", readers on both sides of the Mason-Dixon line all stated, for the very first time, that here was a general history of the War Between the States that everyone agreed with. Of this literary triumph having taken 130 years to accomplish and with all veterans of the war long dead, it was said that historians had finally achieved what ACW veterans themselves had failed to do in their own lifetimes.....explain their past.
    Similar occurances have swirled around Napolean Bonaparte, widely viewed in the 18th century as a brutal tyrant, or as someone equating the 'Anti-Christ'; Ludwig van Beethoven, it is said, had dedicated one of his symphonies (the Ninth) to 'Bounaparte', but later withdrew the honor in disgust of Napolean's German campaigns. 'Boney' was the target of a very lengthy and widespread British propaganda campaign that had no equal in the 18th century. No other individual was more reviled in his day, or in the entire 18th century............Many years on, attitudes to 'Le Emperor' have mellowed considerably, with academic after academic shuffling forward to write their thesis on the importance and Greatness of Napolean Bonaparte There are now over 500,000 books on this little Corsican "Up-start" in the U.S. Library of Congress alone! More than any other historical figure, with the possible exception of Jesus Christ!

    I'll wager most Chauvanists (admirers of Bonaparte) and Francophiles are still laughing at that one!
    And so history is, and inevitably it will be the same historical path for our understanding of the PACIFIC WAR........

    And for that story to unfold, complex web that it is, a little background is needed.....................

    The source for the excerpts you are now about to read is a man called Eric Nave. Tracked down by co-author James Rusbridger in Australia, their collaborative book was as much the story of the career of Captain Eric Nave, then an officer of British intelligence who began his career at Britain's 'Government Code and Cypher School'(GCCS) in 1925. Rusbridger tells that Commander Nave (who was 89 at the time of writing) had, with "perfect recall", unfolded the web-like story to James. Nave came to be part of Singapore's 'Far East Combined Bureau' FECB and not just any 'part' either.............
    Known as "The Father of British codebreaking in the Far East", Commander Eric Nave (or Captain as he was then) is the FECB British Intelligence Officer :coastguard:credited with breaking the Imperial Japanese Navy's principle code, a code added to but essentially not changed for the duration of the Pacific War...................
    JN-25...........:jpflag[1]:
    Picture this, if you will................................
    An Imperial Japanese Navy with completely changed codes at the very beginning of THE critical expansion of a war already stretching Great Britain's resources as far as they could concievably be.....
    The entire British Intelligence service blinded.......:Cartangry:
    ..............before a shot had been fired in the emerging Far Eastern war,

    ............. not to mention the shockwaves for the deteriorating Allied military 'situation' in Europe.........................

    An across the board signals intelligence "wake-up call" for the GERMANS AND the Axis ENTIRE!!!........
    THIS SCENARIO, for the 20th Century's most influential politician,:mad: Winston Spencer Churchill, was .......THE ULTIMATE NIGHTMARE :wow:
    He knew, that if this closely guarded secret of just how badly Axis codes had been compromised in the Far East was to 'filter' through to Germany somehow....that would definately change what they were doing with their intelligence and signals codes, which would ruin Great Britain's as yet incomplete! efforts to 'crack' German Armed Service Codes.....

    And that WOULD be a case of :indexCAXI2NHN:"Thank you linesmen!, Thank you ball-boys!", as the tennis playing Churchill was apt to say.

    So, the story begins.....................

    THE INFAMOUS DAWN, CHURCHILL'S WAR and DRAWING THE BLINDS..by Commander (Retired) Eric Nave and James Rusbridger from "Betrayal at Pearl Harbour" (Simon and Shuster), NYC.
    ................................................................................................................article notes and editorial composition by Christos.


    :poppy: PROLOGUE..................

    Martin Gilbert, "Finest Hour", (London Hienemann) 1983, page 358.
    "I went up to my father's bedroom. He was standing in front of his basin and was shaving with his old fashioned Valet razor. He had a tough beard and as usual was 'hacking' away. "Sit down, dear boy!, and read the papers while I finish shaving!". After two or three minutes 'hacking', he half turned to me and said,
    "I think I see my way through."
    I was astounded and said: "Do you mean we can avoid defeat or beat the bastards?" He flung his Valet razor into the basin, swung round, and said,
    "Of course I mean we can beat them."
    I replied,:rolleyes: "Well I'm all for it!, but I don't see how you can do it."
    By this time, my father had dried and sponged his face and turning round to me, said with great intensity,

    :mad:"I shall drag the United States in."
    ...........Randolph Churchill's recollections of the day of :poppy: 18 May 1940.



    Nave and Rusbridger.....Page141,........................ paragraphs 4&5.
    "...on 26 November 1941, Churchill's private secretary Anthony Bevir sent by hand to the American Embassy their second message for the day, to be transmitted to Roosevelt accompanied by a note: "I enclose a telegram from the Former Naval Person to the President for dispatch as soon as possible. I am so sorry to trouble you at this hour."
    Of all Churchill's voluminous correspondence with Roosevelt during World War II, this is the one message that cannot be read, since the file containing it is withheld from the Public record office in London for the next seventy years. According to Britain's Foreign Secretary, to release it would harm national security."

    Page 141................................................................ paragraph 6
    U.S.Army Inquiry proceedings into Pearl Harbor, July - October 1944........
    "On 26 November there was recieved specific evidence of the Japanese intention to wage offensive war against Great Britain and the United States"
    But no details of what this "specific evidence" consisted of were placed before the inquiry.
    Page 141, paragraph7,.............and..............Page 142 paragraph1.
    U.S.Navy Inquiry into Pearl Harbor, July to October, 1944.
    Admiral Kimmel: "Do you recall whether on or about 26 November you recieved information from the office of naval intelligence that gave specific evidence ofJapan's inntenin to wage offensive war against Britain and America?"
    Admiral Stark refused to answer saying:" It would involve disclosure of information detrimental to the public interest."

    Page 143...................................................................................
    "The only other piece of new and vital intelligence that Churchill possessed, and could have been given to Roosevelt, was the FECB decrypt of 25th November, showing that a Japanese task force, complete with air-craft carriers, was about to sail from the Kuriles for an eight day voyage before refueling at sea. That would be news of such cataclysmic dimension that it would shock Roosevelt out of any euphoria that war could be avoided and thus make the modus vivendi and any further discussions useless.
    But how could Churchill give this information to the President? To cause Roosevelt to act on it, Churchill would have to disclose sufficient information about it's source to authenticate the report. This would mean telling Roosevelt that GCCS and FECB could read JN-25. Churchill must have believed Roosevelt was NOT RECIEVING JN-25 decrypts, since it had never been mentioned in their regular exchanges as had the MAGIC decrypts. Equally, OP-20-G believed the British were niether reading nor interested in JN-25, as this is what they had been told during their visit to GCCS in January 1941.
    If Churchill now suddenly admitted to Roosevelt that he had decieved him over JN-25 all along, it would open up a whole can of worms and irrevocably sour the relationship just at the moment when Churchill needed America's support." :poppy:




    :ph34r: PART ONE: THE INFAMOUS DAWN..............

    United States Office of Naval Intelligence (ONI) dispatch signal to all substations from Washington, 26th November, 1941.
    "This dispatch is considered a war warning".
    Negotiations with Japan have ceased and an aggressive move by Japan is expected within the next few days. The number and equipment of Japanese troops indicate an amphibious expidition against either the Philippines, Thai or Kra peninsula, or possibly Borneo. A similar warning is being sent to the War Department. SPENAVO (Special Naval Observer in London) inform British.

    The Imperial Japanese Navy changed it's Principal Naval Signal Codes TWICE in 1941.

    The first had occurred, as British Intelligence had expected, on June 1st. As far as FECB (Far Eastern Combined Bureau) were concerned, they were back in business again, reading the code within the usual few weeks.
    The next change was expected on December 1st, and many accounts of the Pearl Harbor attack, including those published by official government agencies, claim that because the change took place then, it prevented American codebreakers from reading JN-25 messages sent during the remaining days before the attack. Apart from the fact that American codebreakers are not "officially" supposed to have been able to read any JN-25 messages in the two years prior to Pearl Harbor, this excuse is invalid for the simple reason that the Code Additive Table change did NOT take place on the 1st of December.
    On 2 December, naval headquarters in Tokyo sent a message to all their units including Yamamoto's Task Force, now seven days out into the Pacific:
    "Starting 4 December 1941 additive system No.8 of Naval Code D (JN-25) will be used, and additive system No.7 will be discontinued. From Office of Naval Communication. As there are some communication units who have not yet recieved additive list No.8 in communicating with them additive list No.7 will be used."
    :group2:Messages like this are a codebreakers DREAM!
    NO ONE could have believed that the Japanese would have been so helpful, and it clearly demonstrated the disadvantages of using a cumbersome book code compared to a cryptograph. The enormous build-up of naval units in preparation for war stretched the resources of the signals department so greatly that they had been unable to distribute all the new tables in time for the routine change on 1 December. Not only was the introduction of the new additive table to be delayed by a few extra vital days, it also meant the same message would have to be sent simultaniously using the old and new tables and, because the text lengths would be identical, provide a perfect 'crib' (***'crib' = letter group with specific meaning attached...there were 'good' cribs that were comparitively easy to solve...FECB learnt to spot these crib 'anomolies' as their experience grew***). Had the Japanese Navy been using any form of cryptograph, key changes could have been made throughout the entire fleet at a predetermined time. This fundamental error in code security (which had occurred earlier with the RED and PURPLE machines) explains why FECB and GCCS (Govt. Code and Cypher School) were able to recover the new system so quickly after Pearl Harbor. Ships call signs were changed on 1 December in accordance with a JN-25 message intercepted on 25 November giving the details, which of course, FECB could read.
    Later that same day (2 December), FECB intercepted another message from Yamamoto to his Task Force that read;
    :ninja:......"CLIMB NIITAKAYAMA 1208... REPEAT 1208"
    It hardly needed a codebreaking genius to deduce that this was date of the opening attack. Mount Niitakayama (also known as Mount Morrison), is a 13,113 foot peak in Formosa, the highest mountain in what was then part of the Japanese empire, and climbing it was regarded as a great feat, so it was typically bombastic of a nation about to go to war to use such an expression. This was the only occasion that the date of the attack- the 8th day of the 12th month- was sent by radio, because previously it had only been mentioned as Y-DAY in the operational orders given to the Yamamoto Task force before it sailed.
    Although Pearl Harbor was never mentioned by name, all the clues were there. FECB knew that the Task Force had sailed from the Kuriles on 26 November, refueled at sea eight days later, and that an attack would take place on 8 December (Tokyo time). The Philippines and Malaya still remained potential targets, but as each day passed without a sighting of the Task force anywhere South of Japan, they became far less likely.(although on 2 December American patrol aircraft from the Philippines had sighted 12 Japanese submarines off Indo-China)
    Captain W.W Mortimer,FECB recalls that at the Bureau, the conclusion was that the only other target that fitted the length of the voyage, mid-ocean refueling, and inclusion of air-craft carriers was PEARL HARBOR, and that an attack on a Sunday (7 December local time across the international date line) would offer the greatest element of surprise.
    AS WITH ALL EARLIER JN-25 DECRYPTS, this information was routinely sent back to London............with a request to repeat it to the Americans.

    Since FECB were told nothing to the contrary, they naturally 'assumed' that this was done.
    Had the JN-25 additive table been changed as the Japanese had planned on December 1st, FECB would have been unable to read Yamamoto's final message containing the attack date for at least a week or more.

    Apart from FECB, Dutch codbreakers at KAMER 14 on Java had by this time made considerable progress against Japanese codes, of which some information they appear to have been sharing daily with FECB, with whom they had a direct radio link, as well as a liason officer in FECB's offices. Japan's diplomatic traffic between Batavia and Tokyo was sent to Singapore for decoding on the PURPLE machine they had there, while Kamer 14 also exchanged details of their work on JN-25.
    The Dutch CinC, General Hein ter Poorten, concluded from their intelligence reading of JN-25:
    "During the first days of December, 1941, our intelligence reports showed Japanese naval concentrations near the Kuriles. Previous information had me already convinced that Japan was about to start the Pacific War and this would be done with a surprise attack similar to it's attack in 1904(***Port Arthur) at the opening of hostilities against Russia."
    On 27 November, Kama 14 decrypted a JN-25 message from Tokyo to Task Force ordering it to sail; this was the 25 November message intercepted by FECB, which had taken Kama 14 rather longer to deccrypt. The Dutch formed the impression that the Japanese fleet was sailing in a southerly direction and sent the decrypt with their analysis to their naval attach'e in Washington as well as Singapore. After examining all the details of the message, the attach'e concluded the Task Force direction was Easterly rather than sutherly and that it could be headed for Pearl Harbor.
    He passed on the decrypt to OP-20-G Head(***ONI Codebreaking Headquarters, Washington D.C.***), but heard nothing more.

    NEWS BROADCASTS from Tokyo that carried the "execute" weather forecasts were designed to be heard around the world; in Britain, Western Europe, Australia and South America...and were repeated several times during the day of December 4. They had been easily picked up in Melbourne, and FECB had no problem hearing them at their Powerful intercept Station on Stonecutters Island in Hong Kong, which could eavesdrop on everything sent by radio from Japan.
    But besides Melbourne and Singapore, others also heard the broadcasts. On that day, the duty radio operator at the Japanese Embassy in Washington, D.C., CPO Kenici Ogemoto, rushed into the office of Captain Yuzuru Sanematsu, the naval attach'e, shouting,
    "THE WIND BLEW!!"
    Sanematsu ran into the radio room just in time to hear the news reader repeat the weather forecast.......................
    "Higashi no kaze ame"
    There was great excitement..:D......
    Immediately, preparations were set in hand to destroy the cryptogrphs while codebooks and other secret documents were piled in heaps in the garden ready to be burned......
    The "execute" broadcast had been made several times that day and had been recieved at the Japanese Embassy mid-afternoon on 4 December. The earlier message had not been intercepted, because the duty radio operator, Ogemoto, did not start work until after 9 AM.
    Another person who heard the same "execute" message was :indexCAREDCJH: Ralph Briggs, the senior radio operator with the US Navy at their powerful intercept station at Cheltenham, known as 'Station M', in Maryland, some 25 miles southeast of WashingtonDC.

    Briggs was born in 1914 and as a young boy had been fascinated with both the Navy and radio communications. As a teenager, he was a keen radio 'ham' (call sign W9NCM, Nan Charlie Mike), and in 1934 at the age of 20, Briggs was interviewed by his fleet intelligence officer, John Harper, who asked him if he would be interested in working with the Naval Intelligence Group that was intercepting Japanese radio traffic. Briggs was delighted and was ordered to report to Washington. Here Briggs joined Class 20 of the "On The Roof Gang", so called because they were literally located in a steel reinforced blockhouse on the roof of Wing 6 of the old Navy Building on Constitution Ave. in WashingtonDC.
    By August, Briggs was Chief Petty Officer and had been posted to the Communications Station at Cheltenham. He was one of the few members of the staff there who could actually read Japanese 'Kana'. The intercept section was divided into two groups. There was the ENIGMA group working on German intercepts and high frequency direction finding, and his group handling Japanese signals.
    The head of Brigg's section was CPO Radioman Daryl Wigle, who was one of the original members of the On-The-Roof-Gang. All Cheltenham's intercepts were sent to OP-20-G , headed by Laurence Safford. A carbon copy of each intercept was kept at Cheltenham, and after 30 days, if there had been no query back from OP-20-G, it was destroyed.
    On 1 December 1941, Safford drove out to the Cheltenham station and "made a personal check of the Winds message watch and, as I recall, found that Chief Radioman Wigle was monitoring the Tokyo news broadcasts 24 hours a day and had assigned qualified Kana operators to this duty".
    In the evening of that same day, Briggs came on duty and before starting work checked the watch supervisors log. "On this particular date the station chief, Daryl Wigle, had listed three sets of Japanese forecast. He didn't put down the meaning, just the Japanese characters," Briggs recalled 46 years yater. "I Immediately recognized them as words connected with the weather. And underneath, Wigle had stuck a note saying we were to be on the lookout for any messages containing these groups". Briggs went to see Wigle, who was still on duty. "Hey Daryl, whats the 'scoop' on this? These are regular weather words, aren't they?"
    Wigle told Briggs that all operators were to be on the lookout for these words contained in any sort of broadcast, or any combination of them. Briggs asked, "But they're just weather forecasts, what do they mean?". Then finally, Daryl Wigle opened the drawer of his desk and took out a card prepared by Safford which had the full meaning on it. "So then I knew. But as none of the other operators understood kana, they hadn't asked what the Japanese characters meant, so they didn't realize what the phrases meant"
    And so it was, that early Thursday morning, around 8AM local time on the US East Coast, that Briggs intercepted the "execute" portion of the Winds message,
    .:ph34r:...........HIGASHI NO KAZE AME - EAST WIND RAIN............
    It was hidden in the middle of a weather forecast approximately 200 words in length.
    Briggs at once recognized the kana characters and immediately took the interept and typed it up. In the process he made an original plus 2 carbon copies. He then went to the teleprinter in the Enigma department (because his own section's teleprinter had not been connected yet), to send the intercept directly to OP-20-G in Washington. However, as Briggs recalls, "I had a little argument with a guy named Dave Howley, who was sitting on the Enigma 'circuit', and he didn't want to break the network circuit and let me get into the system so that I could plug in to Washington. I explained that my message was very important, top priority. So I said if you've any argument, call Daryl Wigle. So then he gave in and let me get on the circuit and I typed up the message myself. I then called Wigle, who was in his quarters, and told him the 'execute' message was "in". He said to get it on the teletype to Washington, and I said I'd already done that. OK, says Wigle, thats good, I'll be up shortly."
    Briggs teletype produced an original and a copy at the Cheltenham end of the teleprinter circuit and another pair of copies at the Washington end. So, at this stage there were seven copies of the 'execute' message in existence."
    Briggs message was recieved at OP-20-G sometime between 8:30 AM and 9 AM and was passed to Lieutenent Commander Alwyn D. Kramer, USN, who was the head of the translation section. Safford was on his way to the office while all this was happening, and by the time he arrived Kramer had translated the message and rushed up to him with it and the original teletype in his hand and said, "This is it." Safford read the original intercept and saw that Kramer had underlined the three code groups and added his own interpretation:
    "War with England (including Netherlands East Indies); war with the United States; Peace with Russia"
    Safford immediately sent the original of the Briggs intercept by hand to Rear Admiral Leigh Noyes, USN, Director of Naval Communications, and shortly afterward Safford recieved confirmation that Noyes had recieved the message. Safford then made seven more copies of the teleprinter message (making a total of 14 copies in all), and sent these over to his opposite number at the War Department, Colonel Otis K. Sadtler, Head of US Army Signals Intelligence. An hour or so later, Safford had typed up some smooth translations of the intercept, and these went to the Navy Department and the White House for distribution to those on the MAGIC intercept list. Safford's final task was to send a "Well done" message to Cheltenham, which Briggs and the others on watch saw.

    But despite all the information and warnings that had been snatched from the ether, there was still an incredible air of lethargy............






    PART TWO........:mad: CHURCHILL'S WAR.....:medalofhonor:


    Churchill's own account of what happened in the immediate days before Pearl Harbor is remarkably uninformativeand inaccurate compared to his detailed description of previous events and his regular exchangees with FDR. his last menion of recieving a PURPLE decrypt is on 2 December, when he claims the Americans sent him one (Telegram #985) from the Tokyo-Berlin circuit that Roosevelt and Hull had already seen, which told Oshima to warn Hitler and Ribbentrop:
    "Say very secretly to them that there is extreme danger that war may suddenly break out between the Anglo-Saxon nations and Japan through some clash of arms, and that the time of the breaking out of this war may come quicker than anyone dreams."

    Churchill's claim is untrue.

    Telegram #985 was first intercepted and decrypted by GCCS on 1 December, using the PURPLE machine given them by the Americans, and GCCS sent plain text to Washington at 3:30 PM that same day. Thus, Churchill knew the contents before Roosevelt.
    There is a then curious and unexplained 'blank' in Churchill's menoirs covering the next six days. He makes no mention of recieving any more MAGICS, the Winds 'execute' message recieved by FECB and GCCS on 4 December, or the various instructions from Tokyo ordering the destruction of codebooks and cipher machines. Nor does Churchill make any reference to the long thirteen-part PURPLE message the Japanese sent on 6 December to Washington, answering Hull's Ten Point Plan of 26 November, which was intercepted by the Americans between noon and 3pm in Washington, and by GCCS between 5pm and 8pm in London. The American codbreakers got a complete translation of the 13 parts to Roosevelt at the White House by 9:15pm on the evening of the 6th ("This means war" was the President's responce), so assuming GCCS and FECB were equally efficient, Churchill would have his copy around 2am on the Sunday morning of December 7.
    The 14th part of the message containing Japan's final ultimatum, read:
    "The Japanese Government regrets to have to notify hereby the American government it cannot consider that it is impossible to reach an agreement through further negotiations."
    This reached OP-20-G in Washington at 3am on the morning of Sunday 7 December, and GCCS by 8am. With the final part was another message containing instructions to submit the entire 14 part reply to the State Department at exactly 1pm Washington time or 6pm in London. There were some further PURPLE messages from Tokyo to Washington, one which thanked Nomura and Kurusu for their efforts, and a final one ordering the destruction of the last Purple machine.
    OP-20-G had to send the second message (about the time of delivery) to the Army's codebreakers, because only they had Japanese translators on duty. So once again the split responsibility delayed matters, and it was not until 9am that both messages were ready in plain text. But GCCS had neither a shortage of translators nor this ridiculous split responsibility, so Churchill would have had the same information during Sunday morning, although his memoirs make no mention of this at all.
    Thus by the middle of the afternoon of 7 December, (still early morning in Washington), Churchill knew the deadline of 1pm, when set against the "Climb Niitakayama" decrypt of 2 December, that must mean a dawn attack somewhere in the Pacific, with the most likely target being Pearl Harbor. The Jigsaw was virtually complete..........
    All Churchill had to do now was wait....and America would soon be "in".........................................
     
  2. Christos

    Christos Discharged

    Well!!!....We seem to have run out of space....and a more appropriate spot for an intermission I can't think of....you'll see why as you take a break, powder your nose and grab another quick hot cup of the brown beans, and join me for part TWO of this thread.....(At this point muzak usually wafts into the air)....by the way , I'm going to move to a new thread so I can post smileys and edit.....this window I'm on here will only let me post reply, and I want some more smileys...I only get 25 of them/thread....thats just for the mods....see ya soo!!
     
  3. von Poop

    von Poop Adaministrator Admin

    :mad: CHURCHILL'S WAR.
    Interesting choice of phrase there, what with that being the title of David Irvings's book that also strongly propagates this conspiracy theory. A book that contains the distasteful quote that Churchill had "partly Jewish blood, although safely diluted."...
    So no bias whatsoever there...

    It is a postwar conspiracy theory with very limited legs Christos, no matter what a relief the attack may have been to Churchill & even Roosevelt the only senior parties that had any real idea it was due were Japanese.
    Worth a read:
    Churchill Myths - He Knew of Pearl Harbour Attack - The Churchill Centre, (excellent source for Churchill related stuff, quite realistic but obviously with something of a 'pro' bias)
    Pearl Harbor advance-knowledge debate - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia Surprisingly balanced article from Wiki.

    Every time someone steps out on this particular counter-factual tack, like with most conspiracy approaches, you can hear the ice creaking... Because it's very very thin indeed.

    Cheers,
    Adam.
     
  4. R Leonard

    R Leonard Member

    Oh my, you've discovered Rusbridger (originally published in 1991) . . . what other fiction are you reading?
     
    von Poop likes this.
  5. Christos

    Christos Discharged

    WAIT.....Havent finished yet!!.......the subject matter rquires a bit of explaination, if you are like me and want to ferret all the facts.....stay tuned.....
     
  6. Christos

    Christos Discharged

    Just remeber....public knowledge of JN-25 predates this very document....until their work on this book, JN25 officially did not exist....anyhow.....as I say.....look for the end, then decide....stay posted
     
  7. Christos

    Christos Discharged

    Recent developments in Australia have made all of this research quite good as history, and very acceptable when you compare to a lot of other 'solutions'......I've seen JN-25 described as nothing more important than the Philippines was to the total victory....irellavent in other words....


    All the best stuff happens in Orstralia!
     
  8. R Leonard

    R Leonard Member

    Just remeber....public knowledge of JN-25 predates this very document....until their work on this book, JN25 officially did not exist....


    What!!!

    Care to rephrase that?
     
  9. R Leonard

    R Leonard Member

    Just remeber....public knowledge of JN-25 predates this very document....until their work on this book, JN25 officially did not exist....

    Wanna bet? How much do you have? I hope you bet it all.
     
  10. Christos

    Christos Discharged

    Sorry Leonard mate!....I have been working to finish off the other two things I had posted befor this challenge....anyway its been a lot of fun!....I hope I dont sound too narrow with my sources for this one.......anyhow, I think all of your replys have just been great!....which is, what an article like this is designed to do.....I am happy to back down on my views with better eveidence presented.......just as the good Mr. Heinrici was, or would have been....or whatever!.....

    It's been GREAT to hear your views and ideas ya'all!

    Keep em' rolling in!


    By the way......choice of title for CHURCHILL's WAR is not mine......it's the title of chapter 8 of Nave and Rusbridger...
     

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