penicillin and the myths

Discussion in 'General' started by rememberthem, Dec 2, 2017.

  1. rememberthem

    rememberthem ex member

    I am guessing everyone knows that Australian Howard Florey took Flemings old notes of 1928? which reported effects in petrie dishes and little else and found a way to actually use it - and more importantly, produce it in quantity to be of use, until it had to be taken to the US to be made in the huge quantities needed for WW2 and domestic use.

    Has anyone heard that Fleming was supposed to have been educated by Randolph Churchill because Fleming or Fleming's father had saved Churchill from drowning, when a boy? This seems to be commonly shared but I have read that there is no record of this in Churchill's boyhood and I have read that the families had no link - but this story permeates many places on internet as accepted fact

    Also read that when Churchill was treated for pneumonia, the PR said it was a recovery due to penicillin but in fact it had been the sulfa drugs (often referred to in James Herriot's books and I think available from the later 30s?) that he'd used, but as they were developed by the Germans they were dropped from official records and glory given to penicillin

    I believe the first successful results were in treating 12 or 24? (6/12 control?) mice and the results were confirmed on the morning or morning after (my memory), Dunkirk so that there was no interest

    I have read that there was penicillin for D Day organised in the quantities thought to be needed and that Australia was the first country to have developed enough for war and domestic use

    There is an article I would have liked to post here but I don't know how...

    It seems to be a subject that is surrounded by myths. I corresponded with an English nurse of the mid 40s and 50s who believed Fleming had done everything and that his father or he, had saved Winston Churchill's life. She appeared to have never heard of Howard Florey, Ernst Chain etc which shocked me as it was when the drug was so new and famous and life saving and changing and she was working in the field with this 'miracle' drug

    Does anyone have any diary records or letters that refer to people first seeing/using penicillin in the military or on the homefront as normal access? I dont mean the famous early cases but when the woman in the street was treated or EXPECTED to have access to it - which may be different to what official records say...

    I did read that first military use in large quantities was North Africa and Italy?

    I just thought it would be good to find contemporary references etc that we can all refer to

    I believe many soldiers had supplies of the sulfa drugs to use if wounded and wondered if there are any dated references to getting them replaced with penicillin and were they both in popular use for some time?
     
  2. bamboo43

    bamboo43 Very Senior Member

    Hi rememberthem,

    I can't give you any evidence in regards to first use of penicillin in the European theatre during WW2, but can give some anecdotal details from books I have read in relation to the India/Burma theatre. Obviously, as we know, this theatre in WW2 was always at the back of the queue when it came to equipment and supplies.

    A well known soldier from the second Chindit operation died in early June 1944, after having been flown out of Burma and taken to Dacca British Military Hospital. His commanding officer, Brigadier Mike Calvert lamented upon this fact, saying (paraphrased):

    This soldier should never have perished, his wounds were only superficial and the use of the wonder-drug penicillin would have most certainly saved him. Sadly, we (British) did not have widespread stocks at the time, with most of these being directed to the frontline at Imphal and Kohima. Often our medical staff had to go cap-in-hand to the Americans, who seemed to have a plentiful supply.

    Hope this helps in some way.

    Steve
     
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  3. Guy Hudson

    Guy Hudson Looker-upper

    The first field trials of penicillan were carried in North Africa in 1943 under the auspices of the Penicillan Control Team. This team was based in Algiers under the command of Lt. Colonel F.H. Bentley, R.A.M.C., and observed by Professor Howard Florey.

    Their findings were published in the British Medical Journal;

    'Penicillan in Tunisia' B.M.J. 20th November 1943
    'The Treatment of War Wounds with Penicillan' B.M.J. 11th December 1943
    Also;
    Science and Government and the Mass Production of Penicillan' Peter Neushul, Journal of the History of Medicine and Allied Sciences, 48 (1993)

    Highly recommended;

    'Medicine & Victory' British Military Medicine in the Second World War' Mark Harrison, Oxford University Press, 2004
     
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  4. Drew5233

    Drew5233 #FuturePilot 1940 Obsessive

    Funny how some things never change.
     
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  5. spidge

    spidge RAAF RESEARCHER

  6. Harry Ree

    Harry Ree Very Senior Member

    Just after the war as a schoolboy, I was ill with pneumonia and pleurisy.I was given penicillin and was in bed for a number of weeks.The penicillin as I remember was in a small bottle with a thick rubber seal which served as a sealed permanent top.I think the capacity was measured in "units" of penicillin.

    The penicillin was administrated by syringe with the needle loaded by pushing the needle through the seal and loading the syringe.Subsequent use of the bottle contents required a further penetrations of the seal until the bottle was empty. From the conversation at the time I remember it was said by my mother,she must have been told by the doctor, that the medicine was "first used for D Day"
     

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