Planned use of the atomic bombs in WWII.

Discussion in 'Weapons, Technology & Equipment' started by OpanaPointer, Mar 24, 2018.

  1. Ramiles

    Ramiles Researching 9th Lancers, 24th L and SRY

    Article on... Radiation Poisoning History

    Refs... Midori Naka - Wikipedia

    Which has...

    Midori Naka was the first person in the world whose death was officially certified to be a result of "atomic bomb disease" (radiation poisoning).[7][8] Journalist Robert Jungk argues that the publicity surrounding the illness of Midori Naka, owing to her status as a public figure, was instrumental in catapulting the so-called "radiation sickness" to the public eye. Until Naka's story came forward, there was confusion and obscurity surrounding the mysterious "new sickness" from which many of the atomic bombing survivors were suffering. Jungk argues that, thanks to the prominence of Naka and her personal story, proper investigation and examination of the radiation poisoning phenomenon commenced, potentially saving the lives of many of the people exposed to radiation during the bombings.

    Edit: The article at - Radiation Poisoning History

    Is quite short, but it has some of the radiation poisoning history prior to the A bomb e.g.

    "In 1932, a famous American socialite called Eben Byers died after ingesting large amounts of radiation over the course of several years. This death and many others among radiation enthusiasts sparked intrigue over the effects of consuming radiation-containing products and they were eventually removed from the market.
    The gravity of the effects caused by radiation were not fully understood until the 1940s. Two scientists from the USA died in 1946 after working with fissile materials without using protective clothing or shielding. The Hiroshima bombing also caused wide-scale radiation poisoning and the actress Midori Naka, present during the bombing, was studied extensively for radiation poisoning. Her death in 1945 was the first to be officially documented as having been caused by radiation poisoning. At the time, this radiation poisoning was referred to as Atomic bomb disease."
     
    Last edited: Apr 25, 2020
    Tricky Dicky and Dave55 like this.
  2. Robert-w

    Robert-w Banned

    Radiation poisoning was known before the first A bombs with people dying as a result of the use of Radium
     
  3. Dave55

    Dave55 Atlanta, USA

    Las Vegas

    upload_2020-4-25_8-26-57.png
     
    Tricky Dicky and Ramiles like this.
  4. Ramiles

    Ramiles Researching 9th Lancers, 24th L and SRY

  5. Robert-w

    Robert-w Banned

    It was about the time when proposals were being made to produce a new sea level Atlantic to Pacific canal through Nicaragua using a series of nuclear explosions. Nobody bothered to ask the Nicaraguans what they thought about the idea.
     
  6. Ramiles

    Ramiles Researching 9th Lancers, 24th L and SRY

    Slightly more positive, on building canals:
    Mosquitoes and the Panama Canal | National Insect Week

    ;-)

    Has...
    The United States were to succeed where many had failed thanks to a handful of brilliant scientists proving the cause of Yellow Fever transmission as the Mosquito, Aedes aegypti.
    The workers and engineers still viewed miasma theory (‘bad air’), foul tropical soils, and direct contact with infected persons as the causes of the disease. This lack of knowledge of its entomological transmission route in fact resulted in many disastrous decisions facilitating the disease to spread[3]. For instance, hospital wards in which the afflicted were treated were routinely kept with wide open windows, meaning mosquitos were free to enter, feast upon infected inpatients, and disperse freely to blight the healthy. Even worse, potted plants brought in to improve aesthetics provided females with pools of standing water: a perfect habitat in which to lay their eggs. The French were effectively culturing the disease in the very rooms in which the sick were being treated!
    It was US army physician Major Walter Reed who finally demonstrated unequivocally thatAedes aegypti was the vector of the virus, building on the ‘mosquito hypothesis’ proposed by Cuban scientist Carlos Finlay in 1881. This was achieved through an ethically questionable, but simple experiment[5]. A newly emerged A. aegypti mosquito was taken by Reed, allowed to feed on a suffering patient, and then transferred – voluntarily – to his friends and co-workers. When they became sick with Yellow Fever days later (but thankfully surviving) the breakthrough had been made[5]. The Americans now knew how to succeed where the French had failed.
     
    Dave55 likes this.
  7. Dave55

    Dave55 Atlanta, USA

  8. Robert-w

    Robert-w Banned

  9. Robert-w

    Robert-w Banned

    • It's possible that there was a sort of pragmatic knowledge before this. The RN in the Napoleonic period began laying down rules as to how far offshore ships should anchor in areas where yellow jack was prevalent. The distance was about the limit of the over water flying range of the mosquito. This does not mean that the RN had worked out the disease transmission mechanisms - just arrived at a pragmatic realisation that if the ships stayed more than this distance off shore sailors didn't come down with the disease without actually knowing why - in much the same way as they had realised that drinking lime or lemon juice kept scurvy at bay without actually knowing anything about vitamins. In fact both the British army and navy were often good at making the right decision based on a wrong analysis. At the end of the 18th century both commissioned studies into the prevalence of intestinal diseases. Both studies concluded that the illness was caused by miasma ie. bad smells. The reaction was to try and remove or distance the source of the smell. In the case of the RN instructions were issued that bodies were not to be buried in the ships ballast and the imposition of severe penalties on sailors using the latter as a latrine. The records of ships' surgeons showed that there was a correlating reduction in reports of fluxes with the reduction of the whiffs from down below. The Army issued instructions regulating the distancing of camp cooking facilities from the smelly latrines and also recorded a reduction in sickness. In both instances this was taken as reinforcing the miasma theory.
     
    Dave55 likes this.
  10. Ewen Scott

    Ewen Scott Well-Known Member

    I recall reading somewhere that in 1945/6 the US nuclear authorities received a request from farmers for a few nukes to remove troublesome tree stumps!
     
  11. Dave55

    Dave55 Atlanta, USA

    Seems the ones available in 45/46 would have cleared a pretty big area. The smallest ones in the late fifties were still equivalent to a WWII Grand Slam.

    Special Atomic Demolition Munition - Wikipedia
     
  12. Dave55

    Dave55 Atlanta, USA

  13. Ramiles

    Ramiles Researching 9th Lancers, 24th L and SRY

    57912ef8e69593012be80f13676a40b5.jpg

    Though not on a Sunday...
     
    Dave55 likes this.
  14. davidbfpo

    davidbfpo Patron Patron

    Not seen this thread before, so an interesting read.

    In my reading around WW2 and after military staff planners prepared war plans for all manner of contingencies. Surely it would have been difficult - given the 'need to know' basis of the Tube Alloys programme - to have revealed to them such a weapon existed. They might know of conventional weapon development.

    More likely - I fear - planners would have considered the use of chemical weapons, most of their effects were well known. In support of this is that chemical weapons stocks were in place, notably evidenced by the chemicals that were spread after the bombing of Bari. As a starting point see: Air raid on Bari - Wikipedia
     
  15. Ewen Scott

    Ewen Scott Well-Known Member

    While there was a great deal of secrecy about atomic weapons, after Hiroshima on 6th Aug things changed. Those in the know then knew it worked, and many more people came to know about it.

    On 13th August Gen Marshall had “ Gen Hull personally check into the precise status of current and future atom bomb production ....Marshall desired to retain all future bombs , perhaps as many as eight completed by November, for tactical use on Kyushu.” This view differed from that of Stimson, who was still thinking of their use against strategic city targets at that time. From “Hell to Pay”.

    But with the war ending two days later, no more planning for an invasion of Japan was required, so nothing became of his idea.

    Marshall was equally willing to use chemical weapons and here planning was much further advanced. Just prior to Potsdam MacArthur confirmed to him that training of chemical weapons personnel was being stepped up and that supplies of chemical weapons were being moved to Luzon from stockpiles in Australia and New Guinea. This included everything from tear gas to mustard gas. On 13th Aug Marshall had a memo prepared for the other Joint Chiefs declaring that adequate stocks of non persistent gas bombs would be available by 1 Nov 1945, D-Day for Operation Olympic.

    Post-war interrogation of Japanese officers revealed that they were prepared to respond in kind to a first use by the US. Now whether that was meant to downplay their intent no one knows. But remember Britain’s plans to use chemical weapons in 1940 in the event of an invasion.

    Had the war not ended when it did late 1945 and 1946 could have been very ugly indeed
     
    Dave55 likes this.
  16. Ramiles

    Ramiles Researching 9th Lancers, 24th L and SRY

    Las Vegas, 1957...

    20220528_115809.jpg
     
    von Poop and CL1 like this.
  17. Ramiles

    Ramiles Researching 9th Lancers, 24th L and SRY

Share This Page