Possible BoB pilot - Clifford Charles Flynn RAF 64SQN

Alex,

Does the 1939 - 1945 Star on the left have the BoB bar? It looks like that to me.

If so, you should be able to chase things up with the MoD on your Grandfather's eligibility.

Mark

 

Hello my name is Alex Flynn, it was me who asked my friend (dropshort) to post on this message board. Clifford Charles FLYNN (46247) is my grandad.

She also has a copy of the combat report mentioned on this site and confirmed it was his signature on it.

Alex

Alex - my concern is that if that is his signature on the 64SQN combat report then so far it disproves that he flew in the BoB - at least with that unit.

His name drops off the list of operational pilots as of the end of June and doesn't seem to re-appear by the end of October.

The only way it can be proved that he has BoB status is if we can work out what unit he moved to in early July (and that unit was flying fighters).

The medals are another avenue but they don't prove anything by themselves - what is needed is the medal card (which I think is available via TNA) officially issuing him that clasp.


At least we have identified what unit he was flying with prior to the BoB.


I will attach the 64SQN ORB for June & July 1940


As I said previously, I haven't actually downloaded the ORB for August to October, only reviewed what can be seen online - which is not perfect.

 

Squadron Leader Michael Wainwright flew with 64 Squadron throughout the BoB, he should be able to confirm if Flynn was still with 64 during the BoB.
Alex drop me a PM
Guy

 

Hi - I am Vanessa and I am Clifford Charles Flynn's daughter (& Alex's aunt!) All of you have been very helpful trying to unravel the mystery that we have - thankyou. Here is a brief history (I can dig out more stuff, but it will take time):
C C Flynn joined the RAF aged 18 in 1929, trained at Halton
1932, 56 Sqdn, spent time in Iraq (I have a really interesting personal Diary from 1934) and appears to transfer to 55 Sqdn whilst in the Middle East. and it is there that he starts his training as a pilot and I think he qualified in 1936.

1936, Joined 64 (F) Sqdn and he remained in this Sqdn until Sept 1940 just after the bombing of Kenley. It is this bombing of Kenley which is causing us the problems because his active Pilot's Log Book was destroyed whilst he was in the air. I have Log Books 1, 2 and 4. Logbook 4 states at the beginning that Book 3 was lost in enemy action at Kenley on 18th August 1940. Estimates of flight times b/f were given and these were some 200 hours more than appear in the last entry of Log Book 2 (which finished on 20th May 1939). The summary at the end of September 1940 shows he flew Spitfires, Hurricanes, Master, Hart and Audax aircraft during the month. I have attached a pdf of the last page of Log Book 2 and the first few pages of Log Book 4.

I am not aware of him being injured and it was certainly always my understanding that he flew in the BoB - it is a fact that he was in the air on the 18th August when Kenley was bombed. It has been suggested to me recently that maybe he was ferrying damaged aircraft about as the first entry for Log Book 4 on 20th September 1940 shows him flying a Spitfire from Redhill to Kenley with the remarks "Rev Counter Shot Away"; is this likely for the whole of the BoB given that he was an experienced pilot? I would say not.

The Combat Report from 29th May 1940 mentioned earlier in the thread refers to action over Dunkirk and I can confirm that it is my Father's signature.

His medals do have the Battle of Britain Clasp and I understand that this does not automatically qualify him; on the sets of ribbons, there is a small "rose" icon which I have always understood represented the BoB clasp but I don't suppose it gives any more credence to my belief that he should be mentioned on the Memorial.

Mention has been made of the Squadron Records - is it possible for me to view them, on line or in person? Can someone point me in the right direction please?

Many thanks for any input anyone else can give. I have found it amazing the lack of information about my Father on any websites considering that he was in the RAF from 1928 - 1946 and then again from 1949 to 1961! He was Mentioned in Despatches in 1945 and 1956. Maybe I've just not been looking in the right places!

VanessaB

 

In Len Deighton's Book "Fighter" my copy of which my Father has signed in the flyleaf; opp page 176 there are photographs showing pilots waiting in their hut and scrambling. Photo 41 shows a hut with a board showing names chalked on it and it looks like there is a "Flynn" at the top of the board (not at all conclusive I know, but Dad always told me that was him).

Also, I have a photograph here on my wall of my Father in full flying kit shaking the hand of King George VI during a visit the King made to Kenley in May 1940 - a story Dad always told was that as the King shook the next in line's hand, the sirens went and they all ran away leaving the King standing there!

VanessaB

 

First off - open suggestion to Dropshort, a better heading to this thread might drag in more punters who are experts in this era.

Something like "Possible BoB pilot - Clifford Charles Flynn RAF 64SQN"




Vanessa - I previously added the unit's Operational Record Book ( ORB ) for June 1940 & will add the July one here shortly.

I use a very slow internet connection during the week but when I get home on Friday I will download the ORBs for August to October to see if he does show up again.

I will add them to the thread later.

cheers



Dave

 

Thanks!

Regards, Vanessa

 

As i said in the beginning, you need to get hold of a copy of his service record, to clarify exactly where he was at the time period concerned, and which unit he was with. This will save a lot of searching of various ORB's etc, hoping for a very lucky hit.

 

Hi Alan,
This is all new to me, who would i contact for his service record? Would it be the MOD?

Cheers
Alex

 

Alex, link here:
Page not found

 

I agree with Alan the only way to be sure which Sqn(s) your Grandfather served with is to obtain a copy of his service record.

Having looked at the attached Log Book No 4 file it would indicate that he flew an aircraft of 64 Sqn (SH*A) on the 20th August and on the 29th a machine carrying the codes of 66 Sqn (LZ*V), the latter would appear to have been a ferry flight to Hamble where Spitfires were repaired by Air Service Training Ltd. It would appear that he was ferrying battle damaged aircraft to Hamble for repair until he was posted to 9 SFTS in September 1940, having read some of his remarks relating to the damage it would have required an experienced pilot to have carried out such flights.

 

I have his service record. It doesn't really help except to confirm that he was with 64 (F) Sqn from April 1936 until September 1940. I also know that he was based at Kenley during the Battle. By 1940 he was an experienced pilot with over 800 hours of flying time.

It has been suggested to me before (from someone looking at Log Book 4) that maybe he was ferrying damaged aircraft. Is it likely that he was doing that for the duration? I suppose it is possible, but would he then have been awarded the BoB clasp?

i am going to visit the Archives in Kew and hopefully get to the bottom of this!

Vanessa

 

On a mad whim, i downloaded the Aug and Sept ORB's for 64sqdn, and can confirm that he is not mentioned in any of the pages.

 

Thanks Alan. Like my Aunty said it seems strange that he has been awarded the BOB clasp? How would he have qualified for it without flying?

 

Following on from the June ORB I loaded previously (which does mention Flynn) attached are the ORBs from July to October (that don't mention him).

It does seem odd to have taken him off operational flying at such a time when every pilot was needed to take on the German onslaught.




(Why can't I upload the July file? It is a pdf file inside a zip folder and is approximately 2.8Mb - well within the constraints for either type of file but it keeps failing to load when I try it as a zip or if I extract it as a pdf.....)

 

Hi,

Pilot with the Battle of Britain clasp, who is not listed.
ACM Sir B.E EMBRY D.S.O 3 Bars, DFC, AFC

Mark

 

I can't see dates on the uploaded ORB files (except for a pencilled one on 18/8/40 when Kenley was bombed). Am I missing something?

Also, DaveB did you have any more luck with the July ORB? I'm probably grasping at straws but I'd like to look at it...

It's looking more like he was ferrying damaged aircraft around rather than operational flying...

Thanks, Vanessa

 

This is the page you want, to see the attack on Kenley on the 18th

 

DaveB - the key is in the word you use; "..operationally".

He may well have been on the squadron. He may well have flown in the period 10 July to 31 October, but if it was not an operational flight then he would not have qualified.

Also, it would not be the first time that a BofB bar has been issued in error - equally, some were not issued when there was a clear entitlement.

 

I hope you dont mind me posting an example.

Classified here BoB Pilot Wa-pilots
LIST-MENU

Not classified here Battle of Britain Monument London - British Pilots List - W

Sgt J.P.Walsh of No 616 Squadron was killed on the 4th of August 1940. He spun in his Spitfire I (N3271) in to the ground from 5,000ft in a practice dogfight near Kirton in Lindsey.

WALSH, JOHN PATRICK

Rank:
Sergeant
Trade:
Pilot
Service No:
754138
Date of Death:
04/08/1940
Age:
20
Regiment/Service:
Royal Air Force Volunteer Reserve

616 Sqdn.
Grave Reference
Sec. 13. Grave 1909.
Cemetery
HARROW CEMETERY
Additional Information:
Son of Harry Patrick Walsh, and of Nellie Walsh, of Harrow.