Prisoner Of War Lists

Discussion in 'Prisoners of War' started by ADM199, Aug 9, 2011.

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  1. Drew5233

    Drew5233 #FuturePilot Patron 1940 Obsessive

    Hi Mike,

    Step in to my 1940 office and I'll see what I can dig up for you. As Di says start a thread in the 1940 section and I'll see what I can dig out for you. I have the units war diary but off the top of my head June may be missing, many of the 51 Divs are due to them being captured and I doubt he'll be in the missing men file being an officer. All that said I reckon I can find something for you with his name on :)

    Cheers and look forward to seeing you in the best part of the forum ;)

    Andy
     
  2. NickFenton

    NickFenton Well-Known Member

    Mike,

    I would suggest a copy of his POW Liberation Questionnaire maybe worth looking at. This will tell you where and when he was captured and which camps he was in.

    Airey Neave was in Oflag IX - A/H and Stalag XX-A Thorn before going onto to Colditz so l would think Thorn would be the likely location when your Father came across him but they were moved around quite a lot, but his Liberation Questionnaire would tell you that.

    Regards,

    Nick
    KenFentonsWar.com
     
  3. Mr Jinks

    Mr Jinks Bit of a Cad

    He may have been 51st Highland post war but not in 1940 he was with 70th Brigade he was commissioned into the 12th DLI in Sept 1939 from cadet Sgt Tonbridge School Con. Transferred along with other DLI officers on the 20th Dec 1939 he was a member of the Territorial Army until 1966 having been demobilised in 1946 he served with 21st Army Group, Shaef following hi release Promotion dates 2 Lieut 2/9/1939 ,Lt 2/3/1941 Hon Major 10/01/1946 his home address on enlistment was Victoria House, Vernon Place, Bloomsbury Park, London. He was also at Stalag 326 near Senne.
    (the information isn't mine I simply asked a question of former member Verrieres)

    Kyle
     
    Drew5233 likes this.
  4. Drew5233

    Drew5233 #FuturePilot Patron 1940 Obsessive

    Do you know where he went after 12 DLI. Their diaries stop in December 1939.
     
  5. Mr Jinks

    Mr Jinks Bit of a Cad

    Hi Andy,

    12th DLI became 1st Tyneside Scottish ,Black Watch I believe that's why the DLI officers were transferred en -masse?

    Kyle
     
  6. ADM199

    ADM199 Well-Known Member

    Perhaps those doubting my Post will look on the Note added to the File description on "Discovery".

    T.N.A. have added my comments, and as far as I have looked into the File Service Nos. appear to be as I ORIGINALLY stated. 100% ACCURATE.
     
  7. NickFenton

    NickFenton Well-Known Member

    Tried sending you a PM.

    what was this about?

    Regards,

    Nick
     
  8. dbf

    dbf Moderatrix MOD

    I believe this is the file and note, post quoted below

    http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C2581749
    .
     
  9. Red Goblin

    Red Goblin Senior Member

  10. papiermache

    papiermache Well-Known Member

    Thanks to Drew and dbf and the thread " History of Prisoners of War Casualty Branch" started on 14th February 2016 the following continues the history of recovering POW records from Germany which I transcribed a long time ago and posted here. It's good to know they managed to collect the records.



    " COLLECTION AND DISPOSAL OF GERMAN P.W.I.B. RECORDS OF BRITISH PRISONERS OF WAR
    ( See APPENDIX A )

    In the confused period after the German surrender both the Russian and American forces over-ran the area to which the German P.W.I.B. had been evacuated when the bombing of Berlin became severe.

    Unfortunately the territory lay within the Soviet area, although part of it was temporarily occupied by American forces, and any prolonged study on the spot was therefore impossible. In conjunction with the Americans, it was therefore arranged to send a British Unit to remove the records covering British, Dominion and Indian Prisoners of War and Dead to the United Kingdom.

    Attached to the Unit as experts in documentation were three representatives from the Casualty Branch whose instructions were to study the German system, arrange for it to be brought up-to-date as far as possible and then to have all essential records packed for transport to London.

    Similar action was taken by the Americans who arranged to removed the records of their own Prisoners as well as certain other essential German records to Frankfurt.

    The British Unit, employing the German Bureau staff to complete the documents where necessary, carried out its instructions. The records were then escorted to London where they were deposited in Curzon Street House. Under the guidance of Cas. P.W. the records were suitably arranged before disbanding the Unit and were then examined by Cas. P.W. Facilities were given to the other Services, the Dominions, India and the Ministry of Shipping to make any necessary investigations or to take custody of the records of their own men.

    Altogether the operation was worthwhile and yielded an appreciable amount of new information and confirmation of unofficial information. From the Branch’s experience of Russian methods, little, if any, of this would have been available had the documents been left in Soviet custody.

    As the various records described all “happenings” to British Prisoners of War during their captivity, they were of interest to the Ministry of Pensions to whom, after examination, they were transferred for final custody."
     
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  11. dbf

    dbf Moderatrix MOD

    Thanks for bumping up this thread and adding relevant info. :)
    The extract above can be found via this link http://ww2talk.com/forums/topic/60484-history-of-prisoner-of-war-casualty-branch/

    The file is worth a browse by anyone who deals with PsOW, as there are snippets about procedure, what lists were compiled from which sources and why, as well as references to difficulties encountered in the various theatres, incl POWs in Far East, and those repatriated through Russia, as well as mentions of sinkings of specific POW ships.

    From the file I now understand the reasoning behind why information in the lists were presented the way they were, even if not correct, or suspected to be incorrect. As regards notification of next-of-kin and published Casualty Lists, Cas. Branch as a whole only acted upon official sources, despite the fact that they recorded details from unofficial sources to help trace those declared missing. This was apparently to save next-of-kin from any unnecessary suffering should other information to the contrary subsequently come to light. (It's worth a mention, in other Casualty Branch files it was noted that the procedures adopted by British Red Cross in this regard lead to very disappointed/upset NOK, and attempts were made to curb their "enthusiasm" to share unofficial or unverified information.)

    Official lists of PsW in various theatres were compiled in anticipation of liberation - or repatriation of wounded etc - and separate lists for Missing personnel were kept up-to-date in order to cross ref info received during the anticipated interviews of ex-POW.

    It seems from the explanations that for all their preparation, events in each Theatre meant that initially at least, all that work on those lists wasn't used as expected, i.e. interviews of ex-pow ref comrades' deaths, illness, circumstances of missing.
    BEF Missing and POW lists remained more or less static after a year or two and work on that had to wait for the most part until the end of hostilities.
    Italian POW and Missing lists were prepared in anticipation of camps there being liberated, but Cas. Branch staff returned to UK after it was evident that men were heading either to camps in Germany (they then took months to forward official lists to Casualty Branch) or escapers/evaders ended up either heading to e.g. Switzerland or being 'at large' for months.
    NWE liberation also never materialised the way they had planned. Men were put on marches and moved, or camps were liberated by various allied units, so not processed at the same time, and sent back to UK rather than being recorded in theatre. SHAEF were initially more interested in the POWs than tracing the Missing.
    Since little information was forwarded by the Japanese, any lists for the Far East pows and missing had been fairly 'static'. Published lists were planned in anticipation of liberation, but again events took them by surprise and those which did exist were not as widely circulated as planned. Much use was made of - and value placed on - the lists kept by prisoners themselves.
    Searches conducted later in NWE for men missing in Soviet held territory were limited, to say the least.

    [hr]

    from another file
    [​IMG]
     
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  12. Veronique

    Veronique Member

    Any idea on how to trace an escape and evasion report? My dad was in prison camp in Italy and escaped along with Tom Orton ( featured in a thread here for reaching his 109th birthday in 2016) I keep looking in the national archives list but I doubt that I am going about it correctly, any help would be appreciated
     
  13. Veronique

    Veronique Member

    100th****
     
  14. Tullybrone

    Tullybrone Senior Member


    Hi,

    You will find various generic tips in the topic linked below - including a link to FMP who have indices of E&E reports.


    http://www.ww2talk.com/index.php?posts/707540/

    However if you seeking more help from forum members I would advise you start a new topic in your fathers name.

    Good Luck

    Steve
     
  15. Fooju

    Fooju Member

    Hi I'm researching my partners grandad and need help understanding his POW card please


    1. Full Name: Albert Norman Stanley Reed
    2. Relationship (to researcher): Grandad In Law
    3. Service number: J16986
    4. Which branch of Service. Royal Navy
    5. What unit.
    6. Which areas served in
    . WW1 Jutland WW2 Singapore
    7. Date of birth. 11/01/1896
    8. Date of death. 1970
    9. Was he a POW yes
    10. Any Gallantry medals.
    11. Any Campaign Stars/Medals Yes
    12. Do you have his AB64 or equivalent ?
    What is this?
    13. Approx age on joining. 18
    14. Have you applied for records? Yes
    15. Do you have any photos ? Yes
    16. Have you tried researching elsewhere ? Yes
    17. If you have, state where. Google NA forces war records LWM
    18. Main reason for researching the named person family history

    Local paper reports him as missing 10/10/42 and later reports him safe in Palembang camp, Sumatra 10/9/45. The date on the card 17/2/15 so is this card from a previous capture, confused
     

    Attached Files:

    Last edited: Jan 8, 2017
  16. Enigma1003

    Enigma1003 Member

    Hi,

    The date of capture of 17/02/15 needs to be read from back to front. eg 15th / Feb / year 17, with 17 being the Japanese year of 1942. So, 15/02/1942 which is the date of the fall of Singapore.

    Mike
     
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  17. Fooju

    Fooju Member

    Thanks for clearing that up, do you know if Palembang was the name of the camp he was held at? Thanks again for your help
     
  18. Enigma1003

    Enigma1003 Member

    Yes, from the files I can check, he seems to have spent all the time at Palembang No. 2 camp, but for an unknown reason in January 1945 his prisoner number was changed from 249 to 8921. (as was all in the camp).

    Mike
     
  19. Fooju

    Fooju Member

    Thanks Mike I wasn't sure if he got moved to different camps or stayed in one place thanks again.
    Julie
     
  20. BarbaraWT

    BarbaraWT Member


    I'd like to read about your fathers story and the details of why it was kept secret!!
     

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