prisoners of war camp stalag 20b

Discussion in 'Prisoners of War' started by stacey2411, Aug 30, 2012.

  1. stacey2411

    stacey2411 Junior Member

    well here goes this is my first time posting on this site so i shall firstly tell you my story...Im researching my family tree unfortunately i never met my grandfather as he died when my dad was a youngster so information i have gathered is all we really know.
    my grandfather was called timothy mcgreal born in liverpool 1909 he served with the south lancashire regiment soldier number 3650596 called up on 15/8/1939 he was captured and taken as a prisoner of war to camp stalg 20b marienburgh not sure where he was captured tho his prisoner of war number was 10045 he was a prisoner of war for 4 years or so. he was part of the long march and the story he told was that if it wasnt for his friend carrying him on the march he would not of survived we think his friend was called armitage but not sure..his demob papers show that he was released on 20th of august 1945 soldier no7... what id like to know is more about his regiment cant really find much out also where was he captured, what hut was he in??? the information i have provided is what i have so far been able to find via the internet i have contacted the red cross but as yet they have not responded!! any information i could get will be truly appreciated my uncle is dying with terminal cancer and i would love to tell him more about his father before he dies. can you help????
     
  2. NickFenton

    NickFenton Well-Known Member

    Stacey,

    Welcome.

    If you find his service records, details on this forum, l will find his Liberation Questionnaire, completed when he was released. That will give us some info.

    Details on his service up to his capture are better dealt with by others on here.

    Regards,

    Nick
     
  3. jacksun

    jacksun Senior Member

    Welcome Nick!

    Here is a link to the information on ordering Service records and other information for your Grandfather. Unfortunately Service Records take a year to get, no way to get around that.

    http://www.ww2talk.com/forum/searching-someone-military-genealogy/47584-ww2-soldier-research-tips-links-new-researchers.html#post525686

    First Name: T.
    Last Name: McGreal
    Rank: Private
    Regt / Unit: South Lancashire Regiment
    Soldier Number: 3650596
    Pow: Yes
    POW Number: 10045
    Camp: Stalag XX-B
    Camp Location: Malbork, Poland

    POW camp XXb Marienburg was actually in Willenburg, a few kilometers outside of Marienburg. Stalag XXb was the LAST camp he was at.

    A liberation Report, if he completed one is your best bet for some quick info, assuming he was detailed in his answers.
    It will give you a capture date hopefully, that will narrow down the war diaries for his unit, but will not be definitive, only service records can do that unless he documented his reg't/btn thoroughly. It may give you some stuff to discuss with your Uncle.
    Liberation report may also give you the names of work camps he was at and/or previous POW camps. You can then find some stuff out about them.

    PM drew5233 or psywar.org on this forum, they go to KEW regularly and can get you a copy of the liberation report cheaper than direct ordering.

    Attached some pics and maps of Stalag XXB for you. On the map Marienburg is in the top right hand corner, in Poland/Prussia. My Grandfather spent 4 1/2 years there.

    Wayne
     

    Attached Files:

    Clint Mitchell 2 likes this.
  4. stacey2411

    stacey2411 Junior Member

    thank you for the information x
     
  5. Rich Payne

    Rich Payne Rivet Counter Patron 1940 Obsessive

    The most likely unit as far as I can see would be 1st battalion of the South Lancs who took quite a pasting in May 1940 as part of 12th Brigade, up to and including the defence of Nieuwpoort, prior to the 'Dunkirk' evacuation.

    The problem is that without some definite reference to his battalion, you could spend a lot of time and money looking at the wrong unit.

    If you're really desperate time-wise and if Drew can locate their 'missing men ' file then you might just find him mentioned.
     
  6. NickFenton

    NickFenton Well-Known Member

    Rich,

    I am in Kew next week and have said l will pull out the POW Liberation Questionnaire to see what that says. Not too expectant on info but lets see.

    We can follow it up after that.

    As you will see, time is very important.

    Regards,

    Nick
     
  7. stacey2411

    stacey2411 Junior Member

    Thanks guys so appreciated and rich gives me another lead to look at thanks so very much i dont have time on my side anymore xx
     
  8. IanFinlay

    IanFinlay Junior Member

    Hi Rich,

    Can you tell me how much the POW liberation questionnaire cost from Kew?

    I am not sure if my grandfather would have one, as he was repatriated unconscious to the UK and spent some time in hospital (after eating raw potato peelings and the end of the "long march")

    I would really appreciate someone looking for me at Kew, to see if a record exists, happy to pay for copies (via paypal payment request). I spent weeks researching at Kew when I lived in the UK, but didn't know of these records.

    My email: ian.finlay.1969@gmail.com

    I'd also love to hear from anyone whose POW connection was in the Queen's royal Regiment, and served in Shanghai, India, Pakistan, Afghanistan prior to WWII. (I am finding it difficult to get a true picture of what day to day operations where like in the "in between" years of the QRR

    My grand fathers details:



    Name : Winston MASSEY
    Born : 12 DEC 1912
    Regiment : Queen's Royal Regiment (Regular Army)
    POW Number :
    Army No. : 6084900
    Serial No. : QRR/3169

    QRR Service Record (T.A):
    Home : 13.4.1931 to 28.11.1932 PRIVATE

    QRR Service Record:
    Home : 29.11.1932 to 5.1.1934
    China : 6.1.1934 to 22.11.1934
    India : 23.11.1934 to 24.3.1940
    Home : 25.3.1940 to 22.4.1940
    B.E.F : 23.4.1940 to 20.5.1940
    POW Germany : 21.5.1940 to 27.4.1945 (4 years 342 Days)
    Home : 28.4.1945 to 12.2.1946







    Officers Diary @ dover castle for QRR:
    I know there is an officers diary at dover castle (there was in 2002 anyway) that was from a QRR officer detailing unit diary movements and actions in a book + Maps, but it was behind glass display case and unaccessible, if anyone knows of this, would appreciate any information. It had a map that had dates on it around the time of the 1st BEF actions and you could effectively work out where they where POW's were likely captured based on the date they were reported MIA in their service records.

    To all Stalag XXB/20B researchers: Has everyone bought a copy of a book....

    "Survivors of the long march - Five years as a POW 1940-1945" by Charles Waite
    ISBN 978-0-7524-6519-7 (should be available on www.amazon.co.uk)
     
  9. jacksun

    jacksun Senior Member

    Hi Ian, and welcome. One quick note, remove your email address from your post or the spammers will have it in short order. If your email is in your Forum profile members can contact you there or via PM.


    Here is your Grandfather's basic record Information, most of which you have.

    First Name: W.
    Last Name: Massey
    Rank: Private
    Regt / Unit: Queen's Royal Regiment
    Soldier Number: 6084900
    POW Number: 3036
    Camp: Stalag XX-B
    Camp Location: Malbork, Poland

    Stalag XXB was the LAST POW cam he was held in.

    Not sure what Drew5233 or psywar.org would charge for a copy of a Liberation Report, I know KEW charges almost £17, rest assured drew5233 or psywar.org will be cheaper. PM them and ask.

    Even if he was repatriated they likely would have asked him to fill out a Liberation Report once he was better and able to. Only way to find out though is to have someone look, or dig through their online database.

    Do you have a full copy of his service records? If not information on ordering them can be found in the following link along with information on Medal claiming, and the International Red Cross information request link.

    http://www.ww2talk.com/forum/searching-someone-military-genealogy/47584-ww2-soldier-research-tips-links-new-researchers.html#post525686

    Wayne


    Hi Rich,

    Can you tell me how much the POW liberation questionnaire cost from Kew?

    I am not sure if my grandfather would have one, as he was repatriated unconscious to the UK and spent some time in hospital (after eating raw potato peelings and the end of the "long march")

    I would really appreciate someone looking for me at Kew, to see if a record exists, happy to pay for copies (via paypal payment request). I spent weeks researching at Kew when I lived in the UK, but didn't know of these records.

    I'd also love to hear from anyone whose POW connection was in the Queen's royal Regiment, and served in Shanghai, India, Pakistan, Afghanistan prior to WWII. (I am finding it difficult to get a true picture of what day to day operations where like in the "in between" years of the QRR

    My grand fathers details:



    Name : Winston MASSEY
    Born : 12 DEC 1912
    Regiment : Queen's Royal Regiment (Regular Army)
    POW Number :
    Army No. : 6084900
    Serial No. : QRR/3169

    QRR Service Record (T.A):
    Home : 13.4.1931 to 28.11.1932 PRIVATE

    QRR Service Record:
    Home : 29.11.1932 to 5.1.1934
    China : 6.1.1934 to 22.11.1934
    India : 23.11.1934 to 24.3.1940
    Home : 25.3.1940 to 22.4.1940
    B.E.F : 23.4.1940 to 20.5.1940
    POW Germany : 21.5.1940 to 27.4.1945 (4 years 342 Days)
    Home : 28.4.1945 to 12.2.1946







    Officers Diary @ dover castle for QRR:
    I know there is an officers diary at dover castle (there was in 2002 anyway) that was from a QRR officer detailing unit diary movements and actions in a book + Maps, but it was behind glass display case and unaccessible, if anyone knows of this, would appreciate any information. It had a map that had dates on it around the time of the 1st BEF actions and you could effectively work out where they where POW's were likely captured based on the date they were reported MIA in their service records.

    To all Stalag XXB/20B researchers: Has everyone bought a copy of a book....

    "Survivors of the long march - Five years as a POW 1940-1945" by Charles Waite
    ISBN 978-0-7524-6519-7 (should be available on www.amazon.co.uk)
     
  10. NickFenton

    NickFenton Well-Known Member

    Ian,

    I will pull out the POW Liberation Questionnaire for you next week.

    Regards,

    Nick
     
  11. NickFenton

    NickFenton Well-Known Member

    Stacey,

    Private Timothy McGreal 3650596
    14? Battalion South Lancashire P W Yols? Enlisted 7.8.1928
    Captured Lille 22nd May 1940, uninjured.

    Stalag XXA Thorn 9.5.40 June? to 26.8.40
    Work camp Seamansdorf 27.8.40 to 21.11.40 Repairing roads
    Stalag XXB Marineburg 20.11.40 to 23.1.45
    Work camp Swarischin 8.12.40 to 15.5.41 Repairing roads
    Work camp Elbing 21.4.42 to 3.5.45 Market gardening
    Stalag XIA Altengrabon 24.3.45 to 3.5.45

    You will also see his illnesses.

    The documents were usually completed a week to 2 afrer release.

    Over to the powers that know, time is not on our side.

    Regards,

    Nick
     
  12. NickFenton

    NickFenton Well-Known Member

    Ian,

    I can find no records of Winston Massey in the liberation questionnaires. It is not unusual, it is claimed not everyone completed them but l usually find them with slight spelling differences or miss-filed. Any ideas?

    I am back tomorrow and will keep looking.

    Regards,

    Nick
     
  13. stacey2411

    stacey2411 Junior Member

    hi nick,

    many thanks its amazing!!! im a bit shocked to see it in black n white really brings it home....
    thank you so very much x
     
  14. jacksun

    jacksun Senior Member

    Based on the exit time from Marienburg XXB (23.1.45) and arrival at Stalag XIA (24.3.45) he may have been on the Death March, although Stalag XIA shows as in Brandenburg, Prussia (now around Berlin) even though Military District XI is by Fallingbostel. But note his time at Work Camp Elbing conflicts with his exit from Marienburg and Arrival at Altengrabon so we can't assume he was on the march, but many soldiers made errors on their Liberation Reports.

    "We Battled to Survive" by Walter J. Cumberland and Liane C. Watt is a soldiers story of life in XXB and the March from Marienburg, and a good portrayal of the conditions they suffered through in Stalag XXB from 1940-45 from a soldiers diary who was there. You can get it immediately as an Ebook, it is a few hundred pages long. The author was there during the same time your relative was.

    Work camp Swarischin and Elbing were satellite camps of Marienburg XXB.

    Wayne


    Stacey,

    Private Timothy McGreal 3650596
    14? Battalion South Lancashire P W Yols? Enlisted 7.8.1928
    Captured Lille 22nd May 1940, uninjured.

    Stalag XXA Thorn 9.5.40 June? to 26.8.40
    Work camp Seamansdorf 27.8.40 to 21.11.40 Repairing roads
    Stalag XXB Marineburg 20.11.40 to 23.1.45
    Work camp Swarischin 8.12.40 to 15.5.41 Repairing roads
    Work camp Elbing 21.4.42 to 3.5.45 Market gardening
    Stalag XIA Altengrabon 24.3.45 to 3.5.45

    You will also see his illnesses.

    The documents were usually completed a week to 2 afrer release.

    Over to the powers that know, time is not on our side.

    Regards,

    Nick
     
  15. stacey2411

    stacey2411 Junior Member

    hi jackson,
    timothy for definate was on the march for 10 weeks as it states on his form he was suffering from s.t.b.c?? and weekness from 10 week march!! i agree about the dates and for some reason he gave the wrong date of birth!! not sure myself why. i shall download that book thanks for that..and well my day starts digging again at least now i have a definate route to take many thanks to nick.
     
  16. jacksun

    jacksun Senior Member

    Check and see if Drew5233 has his units war diary. If not someone else may. That will tell you what they were doing in May 1940 and where.

    The guy who wrote the book I recommended was on the March from Marienburg XXB starting Jan 23/24 1945 so he would have been in the column with your relative.
    He also talks about life in XXB for the 4-5 years he was there.

    Wayne

    hi jackson,
    timothy for definate was on the march for 10 weeks as it states on his form he was suffering from s.t.b.c?? and weekness from 10 week march!! i agree about the dates and for some reason he gave the wrong date of birth!! not sure myself why. i shall download that book thanks for that..and well my day starts digging again at least now i have a definate route to take many thanks to nick.
     
  17. stacey2411

    stacey2411 Junior Member

    hi wayne

    thanks again and iv contacted drew and iv also contacted englandphil for any help they may be able to give.do you know if a report would of been filed if a pow was injured?? as my grandad recieved mastroids due to a butt stroke that rendered him ill for 10 weeks so it must have been pretty serious!!!
    regards
    stacey
     
  18. stacey2411

    stacey2411 Junior Member

    Timothy Mcgreal 3650596. McGreal1.jpg

    McGeal2.jpg

    McGreal3.jpg
     
  19. stacey2411

    stacey2411 Junior Member

    Hi nick, recieved the POW Liberation Questionnaire today..Amazing thank you so very much ;)
     
  20. Drew5233

    Drew5233 #FuturePilot 1940 Obsessive

    Mmmm just had a look for South Lancs 1940 Missing Men file and can't find it-Swore I had it too :(


    Edit:

    I don't have it because there isn't one :lol:
     

Share This Page