PROBLEMS WITH CATERPILLAR D8s IN NORMANDY.

I am studying the War Diaries for 966 Inland Water Transport Company RE, kindly sent to me by 4jonboy. A large part of the diaries is concerned with unserviceable equipment. It is known that the Rhino Ferries were unreliable but by various clever means they were kept in operation and landed a couple of thousand vehicles a week. The front axle of the units Utility was broken and the company typewriter stolen.

The surprising fact however is that for July almost all of the units Caterpillar D8 Bulldozers were unserviceable. The company had nine of these on strength. They were relatively unsophisticated and robust machines which had been in both civil and military use for some time.

8th July.
5 Bulldozers in RE ME workshop waiting for repair.
2 Bulldozers waiting to go for repair.
1 Bulldozer waiting repair by unit fitter.
1 Bulldozer working.

This situation does not improve. In fact the unit takes over three Bulldozers from 940 IWT Company, all unserviceable.

The reason given for the failure to repair these machines is a lack of spare parts, but what could cause such a high rate of failure in generally reliable equipment?

Mike

 

The Caterpillar D8 is indeed known for its reliability and strength.

Is suspect however that its failure in the field is a function of it being used for a purpose for which it was not designed.

Namely the clearing or ordinance.

These machines would have been used to clear beaches and hardened structures, plus inland, vegetation and earthworks to create roads and lay down areas for men, plant and supplies.

I find it unlikely that sufficient mine clearing personnel would be available to ensure that all ground cleared would be guaranteed free from ordnance.

Even today with the improvement in materials there are few machines that can withstand the effects of multiple detonations without failure.

The bulldozers were to a limited extent armoured, but this would not guarantee protection

The D8 was never designed for this and I doubt if it would fair well in these very harsh conditions.

 

Great theory, Spinge.

I never would have thought of that. That would explain it perfectly

Dave

 

Good thought Spinge, and I know you are knowledgeable where plant is concerned.

IWT units get very little mention anywhere and their bulldozers even less. The War Diary does not mention the bulldozers until July, although it is known that they landed on D day and D+1 with the first Rhino loads. They were to clear a passage from where Rhinos beached to the beach lateral track above the high tide level. There is no evidence that they operated further inland. They were also useful in positioning Rhinos which were not always easy to handle.

966 IWT Company had spent its time previously operating TID tugs in the Scottish Military Ports, before moving to Southampton and then training on Rhinos in April. Their experience of dozers would not be great so misuse is a possibility.

I don't think these D8s were armoured at all although REME used some that were.

Mike

 

Trux
Did they belong to 79th Armoured Div during and after assault phase, recall reading about a vehicle that was used for pushing Landing Craft back into the water called a BARV
Also a thought about the Assualt Engineers did they use them?

 

There is no evidence that they operated further inland. They were also useful in positioning Rhinos which were not always easy to handle.
A month's exposure to sand and salt must have been a factor in the failures.

Do the diaries say if the dozers were hastily added to the IWT Coy establishment before D-Day, or were they standard equipment? My thinking is that maintenance could have suffered if vehicles were added without additional fitters etc.

 

Oldman.
A quick trawl through the Landing Tables show the following landing on one beach on D day alone.
Armoured D7s from Assault Engineers (79 Armoured Division) for Breaching Teams working with AVRE and Flails to create beach exits.
Armoured D7s from Assault Engineers for Clearance Teams. Dozing and towing away beach obstacles.
Armoured D7s working with Divisional Field Companies to clear forward routes.
A variety of tractors and dozers including HD7, D7, HD10, D8 and D4 for work on beach exits, lateral roads and forward routes.
Armoured D8s without blades for Beach Recovery Sections REME.
D8s without blades for Landing Craft Repair Units RN.
D8s with Inland Water Transport Companies to work with Rhino Ferries.
Plus the Sherman BARV designed for deep wading, beach recovery, and yes pushing stranded landing craft.

Idler.
966 IWT Company used harbour tugs to move barges in military ports and had no experience of dozers. They trained in the use of Rhino Ferries in April but dozers are not mentioned. They are on the landing tables for D day, each Rhino Ferry having one assigned to it. At the end of July the Rhinos were pretty well worn out and the IWT companies went back to their tugs and barges. 966 worked at Caen. Others worked at Mulberry.

As far as salt and sand are concerned the IWT dozers were on the beach and in shallow water all the time. All the other tractors and dozers above worked inland after the first hours or days, except the REME armoured and wading D8 tractors. These however were waterproofed for deep wading. Since they were designed, operated and maintained by REME one would expect that they had a good serviceability record. The small number of Landing Craft Repair Units D8s worked in the same environment. It would be interesting to know how they fared.

So sand, salt, mines, hard work, inexperience, poor maintenance would all have an effect. Also perhaps a lack of urgency in maintenance and repair since they seem only to have been used in the first few days. They were obviously not essential since the efficiency of the Rhinos steadily increased without them.

Mike

 

So sand, salt, mines, hard work, inexperience, poor maintenance would all have an effect.

Mike

Also angry Germans.

 

Good thought Dave.

Angry Germans accounted for 12 killed and 31 wounded in 966 Company, plus the attached Pioneers lost 1 killed and 15 wounded. These were all in the Company bivouac area in Courseulles when an air strike came in at dusk. Casualties were mainly orderly room staff and cooks. No equipment is listed as damaged.

Could be that the fitters and technical personnel were casualties.

Mike

 

Mike
Thanks for the information on landing equipment, I agree that it is possible that they were just driven into the ground doing whatever was required in possible conditions they should not have been used in, plus the fact that servicing apart from oiling, greasing and fueling was not carried out.

Great post at least I have learnt what we put ashore to cope with the demands of the fighting men

 

Here's a civi 42 HD7

Allis Chalmers HD-7 pulling grain drills #2 - YouTube

 

That is cute Dave.

You don't often see pictures of military dozers apart from Caterpillar.

Mike

 

I'm new to this site and would like info about 966 IWT in Normandy and beyond. My late Dad, Jim Walsh, was on Rhino ferries and PBR's.

I have posted on another thread on this site.

 

I'm new to this site and would like info about 966 IWT in Normandy and beyond. My late Dad, Jim Walsh, was on Rhino ferries and PBR's.

I have posted on another thread on this site.



Answered your other thread. My father-in-law was in 966 also

 

As far as salt and sand are concerned the IWT dozers were on the beach and in shallow water all the time. All the other tractors and dozers above worked inland after the first hours or days, except the REME armoured and wading D8 tractors. These however were waterproofed for deep wading. Since they were designed, operated and maintained by REME one would expect that they had a good serviceability record.

A late thought on this one - it's likely that maintainability was compromised by the modifications to the armoured and wading dozers. I believe that the details of the armoured dozers is lost to history (I think it was mentioned in the thread about the lost LCT with the Centaurs and a dozer on board). Baxter's Breakdown: A History of Recovery Vehicles in the British Army mentions, in the context of the waders, that 'Armoured bodies for the D8 were built at 5 Command Workshop REME at Buntingford'. Beyond that, there's no suggestionthat these and the Sherman BARVs were particularly unreliable.

 

Helloo,

Ok, I'm right out of my element here as regards dozers of one kind or another, but I was reminded of a couple of scenes captured on June 13th and 14th by Ian Grant. Grant who was with N0. 5 AFPU was attached to the 1st SS Brigade at the time. You can see the vehicles in action at approximately 2:06 and 6:06 in the following Pathe video. I'll add a couple of stills from the site.

Invasion Scenes 1944

Hopefully I'm not too far off the mark and it will be of interest ...

Regards ...

 

Here are some photos of my Dad, Jim Walsh, during his time with the IWT and also much later during anniversary visits to old haunts.

As well as Richard Fisher some names from those days are McSween(ey) who was a Thames lighterman, Donald Millar from Greenock and Jimmy Welsh from Newport Wales.

Pic.1 - Ostend 1944

Pic.2 - Jim on far right Antwerp 1945

Pic.3 - Jim on left

Pic.4 - Jim in Holland (I think)

Pic.5 - Jim and Dick Fisher 5/6/2004 Peace Garden Caen after an unexpected encounter


Please can anyone identify the craft?

 

Photo 2 shows TID tugs. These were prefabricated and mass produced for light harbour work. I thing photo 3 is of the steering position on a powered barge, an LBV or similar. The tugs and barges worked together in IWT companies.

I cant remember where on this forum there are pictures of these. I will look and perhaps post some more.

Mike

 

Idler,

I have reports from the Beach Sub Areas that the BARVs began to fail later, mostly because of clutch and brake problems. Probably this was due to hard work on sand and in water rather than sand and water getting into parts. Brakes of course were used for steering and not just stopping.

Mike

 

Hopefully I'm not too far off the mark and it will be of interest ...



No need to worry about that! I can't speak for everyone but I love stuff like that.

Second dozer is an Allis-Chalmers. Their agricultural tractors invoke a lot of nice childhood memories for me.

Are they repairing a local telephone switch at 4:45 of the movie or is that all military stuff? Anyone know?