Question-Mention in Despatches/London Gazette/Citation

Discussion in 'Service Records' started by Thistle746, Jan 5, 2022.

  1. Thistle746

    Thistle746 Active Member

    D10EA089-064B-4C33-B625-6BEED27FA08C.jpeg Greetings all, in researching my grandfathers WW2 history, I find that he received an Oak Leaf and a MiD for distinguished service. Although his service record notes the MiD, there is no mention as to the basis for the recognition. Would this information have been recorded anywhere else?
     

    Attached Files:

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  2. Tony56

    Tony56 Member Patron

    A common question, unfortunately MIDs are very rarely documented, some are awarded for a particular action, some for general performance.
     
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  3. Shiny 9th

    Shiny 9th Member

    I have never found anything approaching a citation for a " mention".
     
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  4. Thistle746

    Thistle746 Active Member

    Thanks for your response.
    A follow-up question... was every MiD accompanied with an Oak Leaf?
     
  5. Ramiles

    Ramiles Researching 9th Lancers, 24th L and SRY

    There is this wiki...

    That goes further into some of the complexities...

    Mentioned in dispatches - Wikipedia

    With...

    "In a change introduced in 2014, up to three MiD devices may be worn on a single campaign medal and ribbon bar for those with multiple mentions, backdated to 1962. Prior to this change, even if the serviceman was mentioned in despatches more than once, only a single such device was worn."
     
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  6. Tony56

    Tony56 Member Patron

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  7. horsapassenger

    horsapassenger Senior Member

    You will find lots of recommendations for Mention in Despatches in the Escape and Evasion awards contained in WO 373/60 to WO 373/64
     
  8. Thistle746

    Thistle746 Active Member

    Well... I performed the 'export' function for the National Archive links and did a search for name and service number. Nothing came up - not that I expected it to, I have a hunch my grandad's MiD may have been more along the lines of good conduct/excellent performance.

    I'm going to contact Kew and go the War Diary route. My main focus right now is the locations that he visited, troopship movements, locations where he would have witnessed conflict etc. I just finished reading 'Blood and Bandages' by Liz Coward/William Earl and garnered a lot of information - it appears that the 167th and 214th Field Ambulance units were somewhat parallel throughout the North African and Italian theatres. At least its pointing me in the right direction.

    Incidentally, the depth of knowledge on this forum is beyond amazing. Thanks for the warm welcome and informative comments.
     
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  9. Tony56

    Tony56 Member Patron

    The oak leaf was the decoration awarded to recognise a MID, in WW2 it would generally be worn on the ribbon on the War Medal.
    05 Medal War 39_45.jpg

    Medals: campaigns, descriptions and eligibility - GOV.UK (www.gov.uk)

    For interest here is a letter sent to my mother:
    MiD letter - Copy.jpg
     
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  10. Richelieu

    Richelieu Well-Known Member

    Welcome Thistle.

    upload_2022-1-5_20-26-39.png
    Page 2443 | Supplement 37575, 21 May 1946 | London ...

    Not a citation as such but I have seen discussions in war diaries of worthy candidates, who had failed to receive an award previously, being put forward for consideration ahead of a unit’s disbandment at the end of the war. This mention could fall into that category - it’s a long shot but worth a try.
     
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  11. Tony56

    Tony56 Member Patron

    Diary entry may look like this, but remember your grandfather's LG entry was in May 46.

    MID diary.jpg
     
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  12. Tullybrone

    Tullybrone Senior Member

    Hi,

    Good luck with your endeavours.

    If you do request material from U.K. National Archives be advised that it is quite expensive to use their copying service.

    However several members of this forum offer a look up and copy service at much more reasonable prices.

    Just post a separate look up and copy request when you firm up the relevant diaries you require.


    Steve
     
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  13. rflory

    rflory Junior Member

    Citations for WW2 mentions in dispatches can sometime be found. Attached is the citation to a Royal Artillery officer from the Royal Navy for his service as a Bombardment Liaison Officer on the HMS Glasgow at Omaha Beach.


    Cleminson MID low res.jpg
     
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  14. dbf

    dbf Moderatrix MOD

    More general observations -

    Although nowhere near the volume issued, indeed there are still a good few MiDs within WO 373 Series.
    However, many of those I've seen, that is aside from E&E / POW (criteria trickier & took longer to verify), are actually 'downgrades'. In those instances it's clear from the annotations that the recipient was originally recommended for higher award but for some reason the circumstances described in citations failed to meet the relevant criteria.
    The fact that these (as well as E&E and former POW cases) have gone through more stages of the vetting process might provide one explanation as to why they at least survived in the archives whilst others didn't.

    eg MC recommended, MiD awarded.

    eg MM recommended, MiD awarded
     
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  15. gmyles

    gmyles Senior Member

  16. twinotterpilot

    twinotterpilot Active Member

    My own grandfather (RAF - non flight crew) actually had 6 MiD's during the war, the first in 1942. I know this is probably an usually high number for one individual, Just wondered if any members know of a higher number of mentions to an individual in any branch of service. Thanks.
     
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  17. EmpireUmpire

    EmpireUmpire .........

    Did he receive any other recognition, such as a BEM?

    6 MiD's is certainly an unusual amount. I wonder how many were for more senior awards and got downgraded?
     
  18. twinotterpilot

    twinotterpilot Active Member

    I have a draft copy of a hand written OBE recommendation that was to be put forth by G.C. N.A.N. Bray dated July 31, 1945. Unfortunately it did not come to pass. My grandfather was deputy camp commander at North Creake, where G.C. Bay was the camp commander (and I think the CO of 199 Squadron). Not sure if there was an overlap of both roles at this point in time.
     
  19. EmpireUmpire

    EmpireUmpire .........

    I thought as much, I wouldn't be surprised if a couple more were OBE (or similar) recommendations too.
     
  20. dbf

    dbf Moderatrix MOD

    Six mentions in impressive.


    Noted on the forum at least, although not all instances have been researched and/or tagged here, there's this man:
    47947 Brigadier Arthur Roland SELBY, CB, CBE, MiD*****, Royal Ulster Rifles


    I have noticed that there are other individuals who have been awarded multiple mentions, many of them served in both WWs.
    Gort had either 8 or 9 mentions, depending on source
    John Vereker, 6th Viscount Gort - Wikipedia
    Mentioned in dispatches - Wikipedia
     
    Last edited: Aug 20, 2022
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