Railway guns.

Thats a good question.

The large calibre naval guns operated with cordite bags.

I wonder if any of our resident ordnace experts can reply?

Regards
Tom

Well I'm not an expert for guns but according to Wikipedia they used powder bags

Above a certain size, semi-fixed rounds (or cartridges) are impractical; the weight of the whole assembly is too much to be carried effectively. In this case, separate loading ammunition is used: The projectile and propelling charge are supplied and loaded separately. The projectile is rammed home in the chamber, the powder charge(s) are loaded (often by hand), then the breech is closed and the primer is inserted into the primer holder on the back the breech.
This is true for both large naval guns and for land-based guns. In order to supply the ammunition sufficiently rapidly for the efficient service of such guns, hydraulic, electric, or hand-power, hoists are employed to raise the powder bags and shell from the storage area to the gun floor, whence they are transferred to a derrick or loading tray attached to the mounting for loading the gun.
The projectiles for such large guns arrive at the weapon with a dummy-plug in the fuse hole on the nose of the projectile. Using a special fuse wrench, the plug is unscrewed and a fuse is screwed in.
Common artillery fuses include point detonating, delay, time, and proximity (variable time). Point detonating fuses detonate upon contact with the ground. Delay fuses are designed to penetrate a short distance before detonating. Time fuses, as the name implies, detonate a certain time after being fired in order to achieve an air burst above the target. Time fuses are set to the tenth of a second. Proximity or variable time fuses contain a simple radio transceiver activated at a set time after firing to detonate the projectile when the signal reflected from the ground reaches a certain strength. Fuses are armed by the rotation of the projectile imparted by the rifling in the tube, and usually arm after a few hundred rotations.


But also I found this for 28 cm SK L/40 "Bruno":

Ammunition was moved by means of an overhead rail from which a shell trolley carried individual shells to be placed in the loading tray fixed to the breech. An extensible rail could raised and braced in place to allow the shell trolley to reach shells placed on the ground or in an ammunition car behind the mount. This ammunition car sometimes had its own overhead rail to move the shells forward to where the trolley in the mount could reach it through a hatch in the roof. The shell and powder were manually rammed into the gun.<sup id="cite_ref-4" class="reference"></sup> The gun had to be loaded at zero elevation and thus needed to be re-aimed between each shot. It used the German naval system of ammunition where the base charge was held in a metallic cartridge case and supplemented by another charge in a silk bag which was rammed first

So on the picture is probably just a metallic cartridge case for base charge.

 

1 668 mm/1 674 mm
Are you telling that these things were actually larger than a METER?

 

Are you telling that these things were actually larger than a METER?

I don't understand you, Ropi. Please explain me your dude.




Jan.

 

Bagged fuses.

Until the late 19th century most artillery pieces were muzzle loaders, with powder and shot rammed down the barrel from the business end of the gun. But in the late nineteenth century improvements in tooling and metallurgy made possible the development of breech-loading artillery. There are two types of gun used. A Screw breech has a set of 'teeth' at geometric intervals on both the barrel and breech. Shell and propellant bags are inserted into the gun. The breech is then closed and rotated so the teeth interlock to absorb the explosion that takes place whenever the gun is fired. Screw blocks are less expensive and allow for more flexibility in shell and propellant. For example the shell and propellant can be separated and propellant charges adjusted as needed. This is the type of breech used in the largest guns.

 

...I imagine bags that size would just be too complex/difficult a thing to lug around by hoist - In an already slightly crazy world where each shell is numbered and slightly larger than the last I guess the Brass cases were just an inevitability.

I don't know VP.........seems like adding or subtracting the powder charge would be accomplished more easily with bagged charges. I have a hard time believing that is what it is.

I guess I should have read past your post VP.

So on the picture is probably just a metallic cartridge case for base charge.

I guess that makes sense considering the over elaboration of German engineering

Here is a little something I found:

( http://www.one35th.com/siegfried38cm/38cm_ammo.htm )

 

Heres some info. about the rail guns in Kent and Romney marsh. The 9.2 were to be used as anti invasion guns,ie. firing air bursts over any landing beaches. The Royal Marine manned guns were all fixed sites except the 3 at Guston tunnel which were rail mounted. These were shunted up to their firing positions on rail spurs along the clifftop when required.The RM manned these guns as they were supplied by the Admiralty, all the others were RA.
During WWII, the railway sidings at Wittersham Road housed a pair of 9.2" rail-mounted guns, which were set up in 1940 as part of the anti-invasion defences.The guns, which could hurl a 315lb shell for 26,000 yards, were not used offensively against enemy shipping in the Channel, but would have been able to fire an air-burst of heavy shrapnel upon an invading army landing on Romney Marsh. Each gun had its own "fighting train" of ammunition wagons, workshops, living quarters, and food wagons. regards Derek.

 

Great camo, signature and all

Now how they would camouflage the railtrack line is another matter

http://docs.google.com/File?id=d8zf59z_8c73xt2

 

Adam,
That Blog was a good find and interesting to read.

Regards
Tom

 

Just found this one being painted on Bundes:

 

Looks like some people had an easy war after all

 

Looks like some people had an easy war after all
The pristine helmet viewable in the photo and the bright point inside, the shadows, .....seems indicate that all are in a cinematographic studio.....






Jan.

 

Damn! You're even a worse cynic than I am!

 

Damn! You're even a worse cynic than I am!
Iberian character of both, Miguel?



Jan.

 

The route was reopened during both wars, and operated mainly by Royal Engineers to deploy mounted artillery on the cliff edge.[1] During the Second World War, the branch served the many gun batteries along the white cliffs between Dover and St Margarets. Along this track ran two track-mounted 14 inch guns/cannons nicknamed Winnie (after Winston Churchill) and Pooh (after the fictional bear). During the war they fired into France at German targets, but accuracy was a problem and more damage was done to local property than their actual targets.[2]

I remember this as a kid growing up in Walmer near Deal.

Colin.

 

Maybe it's a photography show, and that they only fired along the general line of the rail way.
For those that don't know, all the projectiles for the Krupp guns were numbered and all different sizes. Every time it fired the bore grew in diameter, requiring a bigger diameter projectile.

 

The British used bagged charges for all their large calibre naval guns, as did the army for anything much bigger than a 25 pounder (e.g. the 5.5 inch medium gun). The Germans however always preferred cartridge cases. either as fixed ammunition or separate loading with the case as the base charge. Even their large calibre naval guns used this method, so it is not unusual that Gustav and Dora used a cartridge case.

There are arguments for both methods. Cases make breech obturation and hence construction much simpler whilst charge bags are more flexible and easier to handle at the expense of a more complex breech mechanism.

Regards
TonyE

 

There was a heavy regt with railway guns prepared to dpeloy to Europe in 1944. In the even they didn't deploy mainly bewcause the rail network was too badly damaged, lack of need was an addiotnal factor. The handful 240mm How and 8 inch Guns in 1st Super-heavy AGRA seems to have been sufficient.

As has been pointed out UK's preferrence was for baged charges once calibre gets above about 4 inches (for field artillery at least). However, in UK for the army at least it seems that semi-fixed founds were never developed never to have used (105mm M1 used in WW2 was of course a US designed and semi-fixed).

Other than that UK designs were either fixed (18-pr, 3.7 in HAA) or separate (3.7 How, 25-pr). By WW1 BL breaches (as opposed to QF for cart cases) using interupted threads, Asbusbury mechanism were a sound design and remained the norm until the vertical sliding block of AS90 (and FH 70 but that was a German design). Just to correct an error in a previous post, note that 18-pr was a fixed round (ie brass cart case) and fired from a screw breach, as were early Mks of 4.5 in How.

If you want to see a collection of humungous brass cart cases then the place to go is the military museum in Vienna.