Reenactment: What About The Germans?

Discussion in 'The Lounge Bar' started by angie999, Feb 22, 2005.

  1. James S

    James S Very Senior Member

    I have met one or two who do approach or deal with the track record of the German forces with something of a rose tint in their glasses and one guy who did make me question his underlying political motivation.
    ( The sort of chap who would be potential trouble for reenacting).

    The BBC show is on U-Tube but I can't find it at the moment - I will look again and will post on the link.


    I don't judge reenacting as being a "dangerous" or "political" hobby - but it has to be approached with a degree of common sense and awareness - certainly the guy who "shot the spy" was being less than sensible and has done no one any favours , all a bit stupisd and shortsighted.
    You just have to wonder and ask why ?

    "Living history" if it is to serve the purposes that folks who do it and enjoy it suggest , has to be grounded in history and a reasonable respect and awareness of the times , balance and respect have to be there , if it is not it is just dressing up and "looking cool".

    The "shooting" incident can easily be done without and should not really be tolerated.

    Fury as 'spy' shot during WWII re-enactment | The Sun |News

    An Australian friend of mine who calls a spade a spade said .....
    ]WTF were they thinking ....oh hang on they WEREN'T thinking [/U]......


    I think this what took place the guy just failed to think , if you are in the public eye you have to act with a degree of responsibility .

    "Living history"- is this taking it too far :)
    YouTube - Парашют RZ-20.Экспериментальный прыжок.
     
  2. Za Rodinu

    Za Rodinu Hot air manufacturer

    "Living history"- is this taking it too far :)
    YouTube - Парашют RZ-20.ÐXкспериментальный прыжок.

    Having a Fallschirmjager jumping off an Antonov An-2 is ironical :)

    Trouble is when people start taking this seriously and go too far. Heck, even in forums like this we see nazi wannabes spewing their filth (not this one, thankfully) and all they have is a keyboard, not a pretty uniform.

    I still wonder IF the Germans had worn the Brit Battledress would there be such a blind fascination.
     
  3. James S

    James S Very Senior Member

    Some guys do get lost in it.
    I know a few reenactors Za who do it well and take it seriously . pay attention to detail and know the history - their apprectaion of it is what I describe as being warts and all "wannabe syndrome" certainly does not apply.
    For them the pretty uniform syndrome does not apply , if it does not look dirty and lived in its not right , shop window and issued today look does not fit with reality.

    Some others I have met always look too clean , too neat that "just out of the box look" , they seem overly protective and don't seem quite willing to confront reality in terms and context of WW2 - this presents problems.
    I recall asking someone about war crimes in an exchange and it was a quick jump to "the Allies did that as well" , "what about Dresden" which is hardly a realistic way of constructing an answer and betrays the underlying thinking to be one of I can't deal with this or I don't know how I should answer you.

    The "shooting POW's" - drama which is not required and something which is not thought about , in reality a captured soy is worth more than a dead one , it makes the whole think look like pantomine which it should not be.

    I would agree with Za that it is possible to love the subject too much and to get lost in it.
     
  4. Steve G

    Steve G Senior Member

    Cracking thread, which I've only now found and have read from start to finish.

    My own over riding thoughts are something to the effect of; How come it's ok for, eg. Spielberg to have guys dress up in full Nazi gear and even go about shooting, and 'worse', people. Yet, do that on Hampstead Heath, in June? All hell lets loose.

    What I'm saying is; Where is the distinction? It's all people play acting, after all. Would there be the same furore then if Spielberg wanted to do a film of the Falaise Pocket and staged it on Hampstead Heath? Das Reich, Half Tracks 'n all?

    Is it the 'intent'? The people involved? The fame and riches of the instigator? What does make one ok. The other a scandal :confused:


    Incidentally, regarding Ron's picture article? 'Strangely' enough, the Swastika doesn't bother me in the least. It's simply never fazed me. But, when I see a peaked cap with that f***ing 'Deaths Head' badge on it? I get an over powering knee jerk reaction: I want to jerk my knee, viciously hard, into someones 'nads! Again and again and Again! :mad:

    Now my blood's boiling!
     
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  5. Ron Goldstein

    Ron Goldstein WW2 Veteran WW2 Veteran

    Steve

    Incidentally, regarding Ron's picture article? 'Strangely' enough, the Swastika doesn't bother me in the least. It's simply never fazed me. But, when I see a peaked cap with that f***ing 'Deaths Head' badge on it? I get an over powering knee jerk reaction: I want to jerk my knee, viciously hard, into someones 'nads! Again and again and Again!


    Every person has their own personal reaction to an image, be it a thing of beauty or one of bestiality.

    There is one image that I have never been able to see without my being overwhelmed in what I can only describe as a red mist of anger.

    It is very well known, comes from German archives, and shows an elderly women being taunted.

    The last time I saw it on TV my camera was to hand and I captured it to put my demons to rest.
     

    Attached Files:

  6. James S

    James S Very Senior Member

    The animal with the riding crop abusing the old lady appears to be a member of the "Order Police" .
    (It is amongest the most cruel and enduring images you will find).
    As far as SS emblem goes I don't think it should be worn by reenactors without them having a sense of responsibility and knowledge as to what it represented and was.

    Something I have become aware of is that not all who reenact have a decent awareness of history , either that or they can't see the forest for the trees, not all but some.

    The crusher cap with deaths head - that worn by the Order police causes me more discomfort.

    German_Army

    The swastika , deaths head and SS runes all within context , awareness and respect.
    Sensoring them out of existance would be wrong but know what they mean and meant to others.
    Men like Ron , Sapper and Tom know them for what they were .
     
  7. Smudger Jnr

    Smudger Jnr Our Man in Berlin

    It is all well and good condemning the Deaths head badge, but in reality it was the person behind the badge and their Political persuassion.

    By this discussion, you would also have to condemn the 17/21st Lancers who also had a Skull and crossbones Motto (Cap Badge).

    It is not the uniform and badges, but the person and their mentality that brings the uniform into disgrace and dishonour.

    I have to say that there have been some excellent posts on this thread.

    Regards
    Tom
     
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  8. Za Rodinu

    Za Rodinu Hot air manufacturer

    By this discussion, you would also have to condemn the 17/21st Lancers who also had a Skull and crossbones Motto (Cap Badge).

    In case you haven't noticed, this thread is not exactly about Von Ziethen's Hussars...
     
  9. Smudger Jnr

    Smudger Jnr Our Man in Berlin

    In case you haven't noticed, this thread is not exactly about Von Ziethen's Hussars...

    Za,

    Just trying to make the point that it is the person and not the uniform and insignia that cause problems.

    Regards
    Tom
     
  10. 4jonboy

    4jonboy Daughter of a 56 Recce

    North Yorkshire Moors Railway withdraws WW2 German soldier invite.

    A railway involved in a World War Two re-enactment weekend has withdrawn its invitation to a group who dress as German soldiers.
    The North Yorkshire Moors Railway said it was in response to negative publicity in the press last year.
    The charity said it was a "very difficult decision" but it needed to protect its family image.
    Neil Robertson, from the Das Reich group said the press had exercised "power without responsibility".

    German WW2 re-enactors told to stay away
     
  11. Harry Ree

    Harry Ree Very Senior Member

    Just a note as regards re-enactment in France.....as I recollect, dressing up to represent the SS is forbidden.
     
  12. Blutto

    Blutto Banned

    Thanks Harry. Bang goes my planned European tour, complete with my form-fitting tunic and my Kübelwagen's sound system playing the Horst Vessel.
     
  13. Ron Goldstein

    Ron Goldstein WW2 Veteran WW2 Veteran

  14. Tricky Dicky

    Tricky Dicky Don'tre member

    At my local resistance museum (St Marcel - Morbihan) thet have re-enactments which include 'German soldiers' - they are actually French locals dressed up in German uniform. I dont believe I have ever seen and SS uniforms

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    and when you consider that after the battle at St Marcel the Germans took revenge on the people and the village

    [​IMG]
    Dans les jours qui suivent le repli et donc la destruction du maquis de Saint-Marcel, les Allemands et leurs supplétifs incendient partiellement le bourg de la commune et se livrent à de terribles représailles contre la population civile tout en pourchassant les maquisards et les parachutistes. Crédit : Musée de la Résistance bretonne de Saint-Marcel.

    Le maquis de Saint-Marcel (6 juin-18 juin 1944)

    What I am saying here is that those who live near here don't seem bothered by it - so long as the Maquisard & SAS win the re enactment every time

    TD
     
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  15. 4jonboy

    4jonboy Daughter of a 56 Recce

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  16. CL1

    CL1 116th LAA and 92nd (Loyals) LAA,Royal Artillery

    they went that way
    [​IMG]
     
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  17. smdarby

    smdarby Well-Known Member

    I visited a bunker yesterday in my adopted home town of Alkmaar, the Netherlands. It's not open often, but it was Liberation Day over here so they opened the doors and it was very popular. Outside were three old, fat blokes in German uniforms. The place where the Nazis used to execute people during the war is around 150m away from the bunker. Acceptable or unacceptable?
    IMG_1619.JPG
     
  18. 8RB

    8RB Well-Known Member

    Unacceptable, especially on May 5th (liberation day in Holland)...
     
  19. Ron Goldstein

    Ron Goldstein WW2 Veteran WW2 Veteran

    Completely unacceptable ..............

    And I have seen it happen in my lifetime.

    Ron
     
  20. Rich Payne

    Rich Payne Rivet Counter Patron 1940 Obsessive

    Certainly not appropriate and it begs the question 'why ?' It's difficult to believe that they don't fancy themselves dressed like that.

    The camouflage smock really shows off man-boobs to their best advantage :)
     
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