951723 Gunner Theodore Douglas KARN, 72 Field Regiment, Royal Artillery:01/06/1942

Discussion in 'Royal Artillery' started by CL1, Jun 1, 2013.

  1. CL1

    CL1 116th LAA and 92nd (Loyals) LAA,Royal Artillery

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  2. Steve Mac

    Steve Mac Very Senior Member

    Gunner TD Karn was killed in action on the day the 150th Infantry Brigade, 50th (Northumbrian) Division and its supporting troops were overrun at/near Rotunda Ualeb - situated between the Trigh El Abd and Trigh Capuzzo - in the Gazala line defences.

    Lost were:

    4th Bn East Yorkshire Regiment;
    4th Bn Green Howards;
    5th Bn Green Howards;
    72nd Field Regiment, RA - 285th, 286th and 451st Btys;
    232nd Field Company, RE;
    2nd Bn Cheshire Regiment (MG) - 'D' Coy;
    150th Field Ambulance.

    and the attached:

    7th Medium Regiment, RA - 25/26th (Battleaxe) Bty;
    25th LAA, RA - 81st Bty;
    42nd Bn Royal Tank Regiment - 'B' Sqdn;
    44th Bn Royal Tank Regiment

    The 4th Bn East Yorkshire Regiment; 4th Bn Green Howards; 5th Bn Green Howards; 72nd Field Regiment, RA; 232nd Field Company, RE; and 25th LAA, RA - 81st Bty; were not reconstituted.

    Those men that were not killed were taken PoW; very few escaped.

    The Officer Commanding 150th Infantry Brigade and attached troops, Brigadier Haydon was also killed in action on this day.

    RIP Gunner TD Karn. :poppy:
     
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  3. Sean Everett

    Sean Everett Member

    Hi and thank you for this post, Theo was my uncle, it is great to see his memory cherished. Thank you.
     
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  4. Steve Mac

    Steve Mac Very Senior Member

    Hello Sean,

    My father’s oldest brother also served with the 72nd Field Regiment, RA, and also lost his life in WWII; 2 years and 1 day before your uncle Theo.

    The regiment was raised at Cowgate, Newcastle Upon Tyne. Did your uncle Theo reside in the area?

    Best,

    Steve.
     
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  5. Sean Everett

    Sean Everett Member

    Hi Steve, sorry about the delayed response, but Theo lived on Clowance Estate, Cornwall. His younger brother Malcolm was killed in the Plymouth Blitz as a member of the RN. Cedric was an aircraft electrical fitter in the RAF and survived the war. Not sure on the connection with Cowgate. Take care and thanks for your posts :)

    Sean
     
  6. Sean Everett

    Sean Everett Member

    Theo Karn1.jpg Theo Karn
     
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  7. Tricky Dicky

    Tricky Dicky Don'tre member

    Just for info

    UK, British Army and Navy Birth, Marriage and Death Records, 1730-1960
    Name: Malcolm Sidney Karn
    Event: Death
    Birth Date: 12 Sep 1922
    Birth Place: Camborne, Cornwall
    Death Date: 21 Apr 1941
    Death Age: 18
    44994_adm_104_133-0030.jpg

    England & Wales, Civil Registration Death Index, 1916-2007
    Name: Malcolm Karn
    Death Age: 18
    Birth Date: abt 1923
    Registration Date: Jun 1941
    Registration district: Plymouth
    Inferred County: Devon
    Volume: 5b
    Page: 906


    UK, Army Roll of Honour, 1939-1945
    Name: Theodore Karn
    Given Initials: T D
    Rank: Gunner
    Death Date: 1 Jun 1942
    Number: 951723
    Birth Place: London SW
    Residence: Cornwall
    Branch at Enlistment: Royal Artillery
    Theatre of War: Middle East
    Regiment at Death: Royal Artillery
    Branch at Death: Royal Artillery

    TD
     
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  8. harkness

    harkness Well-Known Member

    1939 REGISTER TRANSCRIPTION
    Karn Household (11 People)
    Blondins, Clowance Praze, Kerrier R.D., Cornwall
    NAME - DOB - OCCUPATION
    Arthur Douglas Karn - 08 Jun 1887 - Disabled Army Pensioner (Auxiliary Police)
    Theodore D Karn - 28 Dec 1918 - Shop Assistant General Store
    Cedric H C Karn - 15 Apr 1920 - Electrical Engineer Apprentice
    Pamela L Karn - 11 Jun 1921 - Domestic Duties Unpaid
    Sorry, this record is officially closed.
    Mabel C M Karn - 25 Feb 1928 - At School
    Dorothy A Norman (Karn) - 21 May 1929 - At School
    Sorry, this record is officially closed.
    Sorry, this record is officially closed.
    Shirley Ann Everitt (Karn) - 30 Jul 1935 - At School
    Jessie Karn - 08 Oct 1894 - Domestic Duties Unpaid
     
  9. harkness

    harkness Well-Known Member

    Karn_01.jpg

    Karn_02.jpg

    Karn_03.jpg
     
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  10. Sean Everett

    Sean Everett Member

    Legend, thank you. I am piecing all of this together for our boys, continuing the memory. Thank you so much.
     
  11. Steve Mac

    Steve Mac Very Senior Member

    Hello Sean,

    I don’t think that your uncle Theo’s place of death is correctly stated on the form RH. It states Egypt, but I believe it will have been Libya. Rotunda Ualeb was on the Gazala line (on the coast near but to the west of Tobruk down to Bir Hacheim) in Libya and he is buried at Acroma to the west of Tobruk in Libya.

    There is an excellent book that covers the 150th Infantry Brigade's actions at Gazala, called '150th Infantry Brigade (50th (Northumbrian) Division) in the Middle East June 1941 - June 1942', written in August 1944 by officers of the brigade that had been taken prisoner at Rotunda Ualeb.

    It contains only 48 pages and it will likely cost circa £60, but it is well worth it. It really is an excellent book. It will provide you with the best picture of what was happening at the time of Theo’s death.

    If you are struggling to obtain a copy (they are fairly rare) let me know!

    Best,

    Steve.
     
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  12. Sean Everett

    Sean Everett Member

    Hi Steve and thanks. I will chase that up. It appears that they also served in the Battle for France & evacuated at Dunkirk, so that would be interesting to track down. Is that where your uncle lost his life - France?
    Kind regards
    Sean
     
  13. Steve Mac

    Steve Mac Very Senior Member

    Yes, Sean. He died at Bray Dunes near Dunkirk!

    Not sure that your uncle Theo would have been there though, as the 72nd Field Regiment, RA, was a TA unit prior to the commencement of WWII and would have virtually wholly numbered Geordies in the ranks. As replacements were brought in to replace soldiers lost (like my uncle), they would come from far and wide; as far as Cornwall it seems...

    Do you have Theo’s service records?

    Best,

    Steve.
     
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  14. Sean Everett

    Sean Everett Member

    Hi Steve, my grandfather was there too with the 2nd Battalion Cheshire Regiment (Alec Everett), he was lucky and got out at the end after 2 days in the water on the beach. Haven't got any of their records but in the process of gathering their birth and death certificates (costly exercise!) to get their history.
     
  15. Steve Mac

    Steve Mac Very Senior Member

    Hello Sean,

    The 2nd Bn Cheshire Regiment also joined 50th (Northumbrian) Division on 1 February 1941, as their Machine Gun Battalion (Vickers MG) so if your grandfather remained with them your uncle Theo and grandfather Alec would have both served and fought with the 50 Div at the same time for a while; up to when Theo was killed. Unbelievable coincidence especially given that Theo was from Cornwall.

    There is no specific mention of your grandfather in the regimental history: 'The History Of The Cheshire Regiment In The Second World War' (Crookenden).

    Best,

    Steve.
     
  16. Sean Everett

    Sean Everett Member

    Hi Steve and thanks. It is hard to piece together, but once I obtain his service record it will hopefully fill in the gaps. He was invalided out after Dunkirk and went into the Observer Corps, that was the end of the war for him, thankfully for our family. He has 'Cheshire Regiment' on his marriage certificate from 1927 and also served in Burma/India before the war. Coincidence is amazing, we live in Australia, Welsh and Cornish families...hows this for a coincidence....met my wife without knowledge of her family background, married, my grandparents (Alec) and his wife got married in Bridgend in 1927...Jenny my wife was born and raised in Bridgend...what are the chances of that!
     
  17. Steve Mac

    Steve Mac Very Senior Member

    Coincidences in life never cease to amaze me, Sean.

    A lot of my family served in the 50th (Northumbrian) Division during WWI and WWII. A great granddad was KIA in WWI serving with the 4th Bn (Royal) Northumberland Fusiliers and you know about my uncle KIA serving with the 72nd Field Regiment, RA; both 50 Div units. My family are mainly Newcastle/Northumberland based.

    My wife’s family were Hull/Yorkshire based. Her maternal grandfather served with the 4th Bn East Yorkshire Regiment in WWI, also a 50 Div unit; being taken PoW. That is coincidence enough. However, when researching his journey through WWI from enlistment, we found out that he did part of his training prior to embarkation for France in Northumberland. He was based at a small village, which is the one where I grew up, where I met my wife, where my mother and my wife’s parents still live.

    My mother-in-law had no idea that her father had lived in this small Northumberland village 65 or more years prior to her moving there.

    It all puts a smile on one’s face!

    Best,

    Steve.
     
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  18. Sean Everett

    Sean Everett Member

    Wow that is amazing. We have a spiritual connection with our ancestors and land and that draws us back. Great talking with you and will keep you updated as I trek along on this journey.

    Take care mate

    Sean
     

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