Researching 7917955 Peter John Thomas - 2nd Northants Yeomanry

Discussion in 'RAC & RTR' started by Bozerboy0585, Apr 27, 2020.

  1. Bozerboy0585

    Bozerboy0585 Junior Member

    Hello, I'm researching the above Yeoman who joined 2NY in Sept 1939 until they were disbanded in Aug 44 where he went across to 1RTR.

    Is there any way to find which Sqn he was in? I know that during my own service Sqn moves were frequent and this may not be easy to ascertain but it'll help knowing what sub-unit he was and the activities he was involved in particularity with Ops EPSOM, GOODWOOD and BLUECOAT

    Any help greatly appreciated.

    Steve
     
  2. Tony56

    Tony56 Member Patron

    The best bet is to look through the relevant war diaries. Officers often get mentioned by name but, unfortunately, ORs generally don't, however if you can get hold of the diary appendices, if there are any, there is a possibility that ORs may get mentioned - courses, dental treatment, inoculations etc. - in the regimental orders.

    For anyone in the know (not me) perhaps his original burial place, from CWGC, may give a clue, assuming that this was near the site of the action.
    Rukven.jpg
     
    Last edited: Apr 27, 2020
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  3. Bozerboy0585

    Bozerboy0585 Junior Member

    Thanks Tony. I got a copy of his service records but as you know it goes t go into much Regtl / Sqn detail. War diaries was going to be my next move but I wanted to ask and see if there was anything already out there
     
  4. Hi,
    My father, Vincent Crowshaw, was also in the 2nd Northamptonshire Yeomanry with the 11th Armoured Division in a Sherman? tank until August 1944 when the unit was disbanded and the remaining 200 soldiers were sent to other units. I’ve lost track of him from then so don’t know which unit he was assigned to. I know he crossed the Rhine and after the war ended he was billeted in Zwolle in Holland. Do you know which unit your father was in after August 1944 and were all the remaining soldiers sent to the same unit? My sister thinks he was with the 11 th Armoured Division when they liberated Belsen as he spoke of it to her and used to get very upset. Sadly, he passed away in 2016 age 93. I would be grateful for any information you can provide. Sue
     
  5. Tony56

    Tony56 Member Patron

    Sue, welcome to the forum. Bozerboy hasn't been on the forum since June 2020.

    The casualty lists have a 7963234 Tpr V Crowshaw who was wounded in NW Europe on 16.8.44 but his unit is given as 1 Northampton Yeomanry. Unless you have his service number this may, or MAY NOT, be your father.

    The best advice is to send of for his official service records which will give details of his various units, these are only obtainable from the MOD, you do not need any military details, just date of birth and a copy of his death certificate. This link will give you the details:

    Requests for personal data and service records: a detailed guide
     
  6. Hi Tony, Thank you for letting me know that Bozerboy is no longer on the forum and for your valuable information and advice. The V Crowshaw you’ve found is most likely my father. Whilst with the 11th Armoured Division his tank was on fire and he sustained burns to his hands and face so he was injured. I’ve looked on various sites and cannot find any trace of him. There’s a V Crowshaw on one site which says Northumberland Yeomanry and the service number is the one you gave me. Any information as to this man’s whereabouts after August 1944. Many thanks, Sue
     
  7. Tony56

    Tony56 Member Patron

    Sue, afraid that there is only limited information out there on WW2 soldiers, there are still living servicemen out there and it is a question of confidentiality, that's why proof of death is required to obtain their records. Transfers between units was not uncommon and only their official service records will give you the correct timeline to research the correct units. There is a frustrating wait but worth it.
     
  8. Thank you again Tony. I looked on the Gov’s website on the link you sent me and read that the service person’s record can be obtained 25 years after their death. My father died on 10 September 2016 so I cannot obtain then. Very grateful for your replies and information. Sue
     
  9. Tony56

    Tony56 Member Patron

    As next of kin - "Within the 25 year period, where the consent of the immediate next of kin has been given, the additional information above will be released to a third party applicant."
     
  10. Tony,
    I’ll read it again! Thanks a lot.
    Cheers,
    Sue
     
  11. Hi Tony,
    I was somewhat confused yesterday and looked at your reply afresh today. There’s no trace of my dad on military records but there is a V Crowshaw, Trooper 1st Northumberland Yeomanry 7963234. This couldn’t be my dad as you say this person was wounded and my dad wasn’t. Also you quote 1st Northampton Yeomanry and military records read Northumberland. My query was sparked by my older sister saying dad told her and her husband he was at Belsen during the liberation and I had never heard this so wanted to clarify where he was. I don’t have his service number so I may not be able to get his service records though I’ll try as I know he was definitely in the 2nd Northamptonshire Yeomanry. He had the horse badge. Anyway thank you for your help. Sue
     
  12. Tony56

    Tony56 Member Patron

    Sue, it is not surprising that you cannot find your father in military records - personal details are just not out there - despite the impression some websites may give.

    The details for 7963234 Tpr V Crowshaw came from the official casualty lists, but they don't give personal details and therefore may or may not be your father, I think I know where you got your information from, but the casualty list definitely doesn't say Northumberland Yeomanry. True the unit is abbreviated, to avoid further confusion I have shown it below:
    Crowshaw.jpg

    You say that your father wasn't wounded but earlier said that he was burnt and injured, I assume that the burns were serious enough for him to be hospitalised and away from his unit, and therefore likely to end up on the casualty lists. The lists only have a limited number of categories and 'wounded' covers many circumstances. In the absence of you holding any personal information that quotes his service number there is only way of finding out if this is your father, and that his official records.

    I can assure you that you do not need a service number, or any other military details, it therefore doesn't matter what the interpretation of the casualty list is. You will need to complete the Part 1 'next of kin' form and the Part 2 'Army Specific' form, again you do not need his service number, see the comment "Please note: service number or date of birth must be included.", you will need full name, date of birth and a copy of his death certificate, also £30 (no charge if a spouse applies) and a lot of patience, as there could be a bit of a wait.
     
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  13. Tony,
    Thank you for your reply and patience with me. I am embarrassed to say that having re read your earlier messages this morning, I foolishly took ‘wounded’ to mean shot! He did however, sustain burns to his face and hands when the tank caught fire. I take on board everything you say and will get my daughter to download the MOD forms to complete. I’m reading them on my phone, which is difficult! I may need some help deciphering the record when it arrives. Thank you again for your full and clear explanations. Sue
     
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  14. Tony56

    Tony56 Member Patron

    Sue, not foolish at all, this research lark isn't straightforward! The wait for his records will be worthwhile, and once you have them you will be able to trace his service and look deeper via war diaries and unit histories. One thing is certain the deeper, you probe the prouder you will be.
     
    CL1 likes this.
  15. Whatever his contribution was, I am very proud of him and all our men and women involved in WW1 and WW2. I am also very grateful.
     

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