Researching possible glider pilot

Discussion in 'Airborne' started by janetw, Oct 18, 2013.

  1. janetw

    janetw New Member

    I wonder if anyone can help a newbie to this site?

    I'm researching my uncle's Army records. He was a private in the Army and we were always told that he was killed " in the battle of Arnhem" by a sniper. However, the records and letters from the chaplain and commanding officer at the time suggest he never got to within 100 miles of Arnhem. His war record (which I have just received) came as quite a shock as it appears he trained as a glider pilot. Whether he was killed in that capacity I don't know, but I'm hoping a search of the war diaries might shed a little more light.

    In the meantime, I don't really understand the lingo on the records and I hope somebody can. His service appears to have been as follows -
    Date of enlistment 8 Jan 1942
    8.1.42 Posted to 2/5 Welch Weymouth
    8.7.42 Granted W.P.P at xx? Swanage
    23.2.43 Adm to Porlivey? E.M.S
    16.3.43 Disch Porlivey? E.M.S
    13.7.44 RXNMJ. Struck off strength
    25.7.44 Posted 1/5 Welch NWE
    23.9.44 Killed in action

    Other info is that he was awarded a war medal 1939/45 but nothing suggests mentions in despatches etc. He appears to have applied for RAF Volunteer Reserve to be a glider pilot. He was "Boarded" and accepted as suitable for glider pilot training on 13 Jan 1944 and I think may have gone to RAF RTU? for glider pilot training in Jan 1944, name of school ACSB Doncaster? He also appears to have initially spent 3 months in the Home Guard before joining 2/5 Welch. His original sign up paper seems to be with the Territorial Army?

    Any help, info, tips or suggestions most welcome. Thanks.

    Janet
     
  2. Drew5233

    Drew5233 #FuturePilot 1940 Obsessive

    Hi Janet

    Good to see you figured it out. I've quoted the bit you need help with below. Hopefully one of the Airborne Chaps will be able to help with it:

     
  3. 4jonboy

    4jonboy Daughter of a 56 Recce

    Hello Janet and welcome to the forum

    Can you scan the records as it helps the members to fill in the gaps.

    Some abbreviations:
    WPP War Proficiency Pay
    RXNMJ - this is just a draft code. Struck off strength-of the unit
    NWE- North West Europe
    RAF RTU- Returned to unit

    Airborne chaps will be along soon :)
     
  4. RAFCommands

    RAFCommands Senior Member

    ACSB is not a school but the Aircrew Candidate Selection Board used to test possible aircrew before training.

    As he was RTU it would seem that he was not selected as suitable for training or had been sent back to await a place for training. (or is the abbreviation OTU?)

    This corresponds with the rest of the record as RAF aircrew training would be 6 months to 1 year before fully qualified and it would have been 6 months or so after successful ACSB before being accepted onto a training course.

    At the time the RAF had a surplus of pilots for the forseen needs of Europe and Far East and pilot training places were being trimmed back to almost zero and newly qualifiedpower pilots transferred to the Glider Pilot Regiment.

    Regards
    Ross
     
  5. TomTAS

    TomTAS Very Senior Member

    Hi Janet,

    Thanks for the post could I have a name please...
     
  6. airborne medic

    airborne medic Very Senior Member

    Jane I know this is really basic but I take it you have looked for his record on the Commonwealth War Graves Commission website..www.cwgc.org - This will give either his place of burial or if he has no known grave which memorial he is commemorated on......

    Good luck but it seems the story has been lost in translation over the years.....
     
  7. Lindsay Aspin

    Lindsay Aspin Senior Member

    Hello Janet and Welcome to the forum.

    What was your Uncle's name? ... if your Uncle was serving with the Glider Pilot Regiment when he was KIA 23.09.1944. he may be listed under the GPR Nominal Roll and Casualty List shown in the book written by Major Mike Peters and Luuk Buist titled 'Glider Pilots at Arnhem'.

    I'd be happy to take a look for you.

    Good luck with your research.
    Lindsay
     
  8. airborne medic

    airborne medic Very Senior Member

    Looking at info you posted I would suggest he perhaps tried to get into the GPR but failed the selection course and was RTU'd (returned to unit) which is why he was with the 1/5 Welch when he was killed on 23/9.....The 5th Welch were a pre-war TA unit and were part of the 53rd Division and around this time were tasked with a canal crossing at Lommel 36 miles east of Antwerp and so may have been killed here....As I said earlier the CWGC website will help....
     
  9. squeakyclean

    squeakyclean Member

    Now, I'm not certain, but I think in this capacity RTU is Refresher Training Unit? I've come across it before in a GP capacity but I could be wrong.

    Matt
     
  10. Roxy

    Roxy Senior Member

    From Janet's other thread:

    "I'm researching my uncle Ernest Lynn Smith Pte 3976238 of 1/5 Bn Welch Regiment. He was killed at Netersel on 24 September 1944 and apparently buried at Duizen Parish Church, although he's now at the War Cemetry and I have a photo of his cross. I'd like to build up a picture of his service experience before he was killed."

    Roxy
     
  11. airborne medic

    airborne medic Very Senior Member

    Roxy, Thanks...can't have been at 'Arnhem' but part of the wider Market Garden fighting......
     
  12. Swiper

    Swiper Resident Sospan

    Alright, stumbled across this by pure chance.

    He ain't in GPR then, he's a Private in 1/5th Welch Regiment, 158 Brigade, 53rd Welsh Division.

    It appears he spent a substantial amount of time in their Second Line Battalion, 2/5th Welch in 38 Welsh Division.

    From 1/5th Welch History
    "By 0900 hrs on 22nd September we had got as far as Casteren. From there onwards the Bosch really started to be nasty. As the leading elements reached the bridge the enemy opened up with spandaus. The Battalion thereupon took up defensive positions astride the road. Here the enemy had felled trees in order to form a road block. It was in attempting to clear this road block that Sergeant Whitby lost his life.That night patrols confirmed the presence of the enemy in Netersel, which was the next village. At 1145 hrs the following morning the carrier platoon made an attempt to advance towards Netersel, but had to return. Major Campbell then took a hand in the affair by putting down a concentration of artillery on Netersel, after which a section of the carriers, followed by D and C Companies, wee able to enter Netersel. We had finally consolidated the position within Netersel by 1700 hrs. During our stay in Netersel the Bosch was more active than at any other time since France. One particular night an enemy fighting patrol managed to get right into the middle of our area and gave us a rather lively time with egg and stick grenades. From Netersel also was dispatched the reconnaissance patrol under Sergeant Townsend which did not return. Happily, however, subsequent information tells us he was taken prisoner by the enemy. Here also the Adjutant, Captain Johnson, was wounded and evacuated.'

    Further to that I am doubtful as to the day he joined the unit, a large cadre from the Division arrived on 25 July, but men were often told that they would join their unit before they were attached. Also 1/5th Welch tend to be rather good in regards to documentation. He would have gone direct from 38 Div to 53 DIv with... the remarkably gallant (later Major) Tasker Watkins, who wins his VC with 1/5th Welch... and who also came from 38 Div direct. Your uncle was sent in with a large cadre to replace A Company who were utterly destroyed on 21 July when fighting against 21 SS-Panzergrenadier Regiment, and a heavy concentration of tanks from 10th SS-Panzer Regiment.

    "2005 – Battalion Tactical HQ was shelled suffering two casualties and also 3 Loyd Carriers. The night was spent quietly. Reinforcements arrived at rear Brigade HQ consisting of Major Roche, Major Carey, Captain Watkins and 129 ORs."

    So, in short, I can't comment on his attempt to join the GPR, but he certainly served with 1/5th Welch in NWE, and prior to that 2/5th Welch in Britain.

    If you are curious about what his Battalion looked like, and the conditions they fought in, check out my website [Under Development]:
    http://jonathanhware.weebly.com/15th-welch.html

    I do have a book on this very subject in the final stages of editing (well... on Normandy at least). I also have copied all of the material from Brecon for research but the name does not ring a bell as of yet.

    Any further queries, photos or information... I'd love to see/hear more!
     
    4jonboy, Roxy and Fred Wilson like this.
  13. janetw

    janetw New Member

    Hello everyone. Thanks so much for your replies so far, they are so helpful and fascinating and I am very grateful. My home computer has gone caput at the moment so unable to scan any documents in, but will do so when computer mended. In the meantime, any further insights extremely welcome.
     
  14. Mike Boulter

    Mike Boulter Member

    Hello Jane could you please email me I may have information for you. m.boulter579@btinternet.com
     

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