Royal Army Service Corps Record

Discussion in 'Service Records' started by paulbishop3, Sep 9, 2012.

  1. paulbishop3

    paulbishop3 Junior Member

    Hi, I was wondering if anyone would be able to help me with (what seems to be a common problem) deciphering my Grandfathers service record
    I am fairly new to these types of record and am struggling with the codes used

    My Grandfather started out in the Royal Army Service corps and the first entry has me beat, it reads

    Posted to No.3 coy No. 2 R.T.B R.A.S.C, what does R.T.B stand for

    Also in August 1940 he was posted to M.T.P Coy 2. Depot Btn RASC, what is M.T.P Company?

    in 1942 an entry reads Compulsary trans to C.M.P, I'm fairly sure C.M.P is Corps of Military Police but why might this entry be listed as 'compulsary' transfer?

    skipping through to 1945, it reads T.O.S 16 ADRV, what does 16ADRV stand for
    and also in 1945 it reads SOS CMF on Entraining for UK.PYTHON which is just one big ? for me, although it will probably turn out to be something fairly simple.

    Any help would be very much appreciated, Thank you for your time

    Paul
     
  2. Mike L

    Mike L Very Senior Member

    Hi Paul and welcome to the forum.
    I take it you have seen the list of abbreviations which often comes with a service record. It might be helpful if you could scan and post copies of the service record since it is easy to mis-read some entries and the experts here might be able to decipher additional information for you.
    BTW 'Python' was a scheme for demobilisation of troops following cessation of hostilities, but it gets complicated, depending on length of service etc.
    Good luck.
     
  3. Tom Canning

    Tom Canning WW2 Veteran WW2 Veteran

    Paul
    don't know too much about the RASC but the last one in 1945

    Means that he was Struck off Strength(SOS) - Central Mediterranean Force (CMF) and went home as time expired (PYTHON ) over seas...
    the TOS means that he was Taken On Strength......of 16th whatever
     
  4. Tom Canning

    Tom Canning WW2 Veteran WW2 Veteran

    Mike

    PYTHON had nothing to do with demobilization - but service overseas contingent on
    how long one was away from the uk - was sometimes preceded by LIAP - which meant one had 28 Days home leave before returning overseas - demobilisation was contingent on the AGE & SERVICE number issued when joining the Forces - e.g - mine was issued in late '42
    and was #50 - demob was in May '47- unless one signed up once more

    Cheers
     
  5. idler

    idler GeneralList

    The TB in RTB is almost certainly 'Training Battalion' as it is at the beginning of his service. The R may be 'Recruit'.

    MTP - tricky... MT is officially 'Mechanical Transport' and there is also 'tpt' as the official abbreviation of 'transport'. Could someone have bastardised the two and written MTp - Mechanical Transport Company is the only thing that makes sense to me.

    A compulsory transfer is the Army deciding it wants a new redcap, as opposed to your grandfather volunteering.

    Could ADRV be ADRU? Fiddling with Google suggests it is "Air Despatch and Reception Unit" so air supply. TOS is 'Taken on Strength'.

    As an ADRU is a valid RASC role, CMP ought to mean something else... I think it is actually CMF - compulsory transfer to Central Mediterranean Force, from whom he is subsequently struck off strength (SOS)?

    Python was a leave scheme and is covered here.
     
  6. Mike L

    Mike L Very Senior Member

    Cheers Tom, I said it got complicated - obviously didn't quite understand it at all!
     
  7. paulbishop3

    paulbishop3 Junior Member

    Hi everyone, thankyou for the quick and helpful replies. I have tried to attach a couple of copies of my Grand fathers records as suggested by Mike in case I have read it wrong. I do have a copy of the list of abbreviations so can work out some of the codes, but a few do not seem to be on there.

    I have checked through to the entry for 1945 which I thought was ADRV but as suggested by Idler, it is ADRU, but the CMP entry is definately CMP

    Also as an additional point, on the second attachment, it says in 1943 posted to BDX (iv) does anyone have any thoughts on this.

    Once again, thanks for all your help

    Paul
     

    Attached Files:

  8. idler

    idler GeneralList

    It makes more sense now - he did transfer to CMP but 'had issues' and got sent back to the RASC.
     
  9. ClankyPencil

    ClankyPencil Senior Member

    Hi Paul

    I had the same query regarding Python & LIAP after seeing it referred to in a number of entries of my grandfather's diary of 1946. These entries were mainly about troops returning from LIAP.
    After a search on the internet i turned up this link which i think gives a fair assessment of what Python and LIAP (Leave in addition to Python) were.

    BBC - WW2 People's War - James Glew, Sapper, 1st Division, Palestine

    regards

    Scott
     
  10. Mike L

    Mike L Very Senior Member

  11. Tom Canning

    Tom Canning WW2 Veteran WW2 Veteran

    Does NO one ever read the preceding postings as the posting at #4 appears to explain the Python and Liap circumstances.....maybe it's the way I tell them
    Cheers
     
  12. chick42-46

    chick42-46 Senior Member

    Hi Paul and welcome to the forum

    I don't have a ready answer to your questions but do have some books on the RASC (in the loft and at work, so not accessible right now) and will check them.

    There is also this very thorough post by Trux - http://www.ww2talk.com/forum/rasc/28507-motor-transport-units-rasc.html - which gives a very detailed breakdown of many types of RASC unit as well as how they were made up.

    Cheers

    Ian
     
  13. chick42-46

    chick42-46 Senior Member

    Paul

    Looking at the first scan of the service history, the far right column answers your question about what "MTP" means. It means Motor Transport Personnel Company, No. 2 Depot Battalion, RASC.

    But I've no idea what a "Personnel" company was!
     
  14. chick42-46

    chick42-46 Senior Member

    Paul

    I've now found this description of a Depot Battalion - post-WW2 but not so long after, I feel, as to be much different.

    Preparation for Suez Canal

    If accurate, then the Depot Battalion was a kind of holding pen for waifs and strays on their way from or to somewhere else. Which would fit with your grandad having completed his driver training and being in limbo until posted to the 43rd Divisional Supply Column.

    Cheers

    Ian
     
  15. ClankyPencil

    ClankyPencil Senior Member

    Does NO one ever read the preceding postings as the posting at #4 appears to explain the Python and Liap circumstances.....maybe it's the way I tell them
    Cheers

    Apologies Tom

    I had read your post #4 but i sometimes have difficulty understanding some of your posts as i have no experience in the armed forces or was not around during WW2 (i.e. i am unsure of what the #50 in your post #4 means or its connection/relevance to your demobbing in 1947).

    I had found the link i posted really useful regarding Python and LIAP (during my own research), as it showed the link between them and also had additional info regarding eligibility etc, so thought it might be useful to the OP.

    Regards
     
  16. Tom Canning

    Tom Canning WW2 Veteran WW2 Veteran

    Clanky

    so what you are saying is it's the way I tell 'em so can't help you there as i try to make my references as simple in order that even I can understand them-so the #50 is bugging
    you sooooo forget the references to PYTHON and LIAP and concentrate of the AGE & SERVICE group....with which number 50 was issued at the time of joined in 1942- now this number meant that when the war was finished and I was still around - I could officially leave the Army - with their thanks etc - when that number was called - and as you know the war fnished in Europe in May '45 BUT I was not demobbed until the #50 came up in May of 1947.......

    Co-incidently Ron Goldstein was demobbed a month before me as his number was #49
    as he had joined a month before me - Sapper's number was irrelevant as he was thrown out as being of no further use to the Army having something to do with being blown up etc- and their having to pay him a pension for all these years..to which they object....

    Sorry you missed WW2 - it was loads of fun.....I also missed lots of it when in hospitals for six months away from the noisy bits
    Cheers
     
    ClankyPencil likes this.
  17. paulbishop3

    paulbishop3 Junior Member

    Hi Ian, thanks for your help, although you have made me feel daft for not spotting the 'M.T Personnel' stamped on my Grandfathers service record!
    Now I can try and go through the rest of his record with at least a bit more understanding of how it all works.

    Thanks again everyone
    Paul.
     
  18. Ron Goldstein

    Ron Goldstein WW2 Veteran WW2 Veteran

    Clanky

    The group number quoted above in comment #16 is almost correct, my number actually being 48.

    The simplest way of regarding the group number is to think of it ss being the equivalent of the ticket one gets when joining an official queue in perhaps a hospital.

    The major difference, of course, being that the number was based on a combination of age, length of service and, I believe, how much of that service was done overseas.

    Ron
     
  19. Tom Canning

    Tom Canning WW2 Veteran WW2 Veteran

    Clanky

    You will as l find, that posting #18 also mostly correct as he was 19 and I was 18 on joining - plus the fact that the Army in 1942 had NO idea how long the war would last PLUS they could not possibly guess how long one would serve overseas...hence the numbering system as whenever the war DID finish in an orderly fashion - no matter how much Alanbrooke preached his dictum of prevision and provision....

    Cheers
     
  20. ClankyPencil

    ClankyPencil Senior Member

    Tom

    Probably more my lack of understanding, rather than your telling. :)

    Thanks for clarification (and patience). I think both my grandfathers were in a similar situation to you and Ron having joined up in 42.
    One ended up being transferred from the 6th Y&L (upon disbandment) to the Irish Guards and posted to a displaced persons camp until coming home in 47.
    The other one was lucky and got an early release in March 46, due to personal circumstances, after an S.S.A.F.A. investigation.

    Regards
     

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