(Royal Engineers) rank 'W/CH'?

Discussion in 'Royal Engineers' started by Pat Atkins, Nov 10, 2017.

  1. Pat Atkins

    Pat Atkins Well-Known Member

    Apologies of this is in the wrong place, couldn't really decide where to put it.

    My mother's uncle 1945586 Samuel Robert 'Bert' Palmer from Kirkandrews in Kirkcudbrightshire was in MT in 25 Airfield Construction Group HQ (RE) in France and Holland. Turns out he was awarded a BEM in May 1945; the citation appears to give his rank as 'W/CH', which I haven't come across. The typing is pretty clear on the form.

    Can anyone enlighten me, please?

    Many thanks, Pat.
     
  2. dbf

    dbf Moderatrix MOD

    Well the London Gazette, 11th October 1945 states:
    https://www.thegazette.co.uk/London/issue/37302/supplement/4996/data.pdf
    https://www.thegazette.co.uk/London/issue/37302/supplement/4995/data.pdf
    CENTRAL CHANCERY OF THE ORDERS O* KNIGHTHOOD.
    Si. James's Palace, S.W.i.
    11th October,1945.
    The KING has been graciously pleased to approve the award of -the British Empire Medal (Military Division), in recognition of gallant and distingushed servces in North-West Europe, to the under-mentioned : —
    No. 1945586 Corporal Samuel Robert PALMER, Corps of Royal Engineers (Gasstown, Dumfries).

    Perhaps if the form is clear, then it's a problem with the transcription from the original data.


    (The first thing that sprung to my mind was some sort of confusion with Cfn - Craftsman - but then he's RE not REME.)

    Moved thread to RE subforum, better than getting lost under General heading.
     
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  3. Rich Payne

    Rich Payne Rivet Counter Patron 1940 Obsessive

    I wonder if it was a mis-type from a hand-written form ? Do you have his service records or any photos ? WOII (Warrant Officer, Class II ) would seem more likely. It's not usually written W/O though.
     
    Last edited: Nov 10, 2017
  4. Rich Payne

    Rich Payne Rivet Counter Patron 1940 Obsessive

    W/ is sometimes seen on record cards as an abbreviation for War substantive - Could it have been badly transcribed from W/Cpl ?

    Scannen0010 (2).jpg
    Here's one that goes from U/A/CPL to P/A/CPL and then W/CPL

    Unpaid Acting Corporal - Paid Acting Corporal and War Substantive Corporal.
     
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  5. Tricky Dicky

    Tricky Dicky Don'tre member

    Recommendation for Award for Palmer, Samuel Robert Rank: W/CH Service No: ... | The National Archives
    Reference: WO 373/85/485
    Description:
    Name Palmer, Samuel Robert
    Rank: W/CH
    Service No: 1945586
    Regiment: Corps of Royal Engineers
    Theatre of Combat or Operation: North-West Europe 1944-1945
    Award: British Empire Medal
    Date of announcement in London Gazette: 11 October 1945
    Date: 1945
    Held by: The National Archives, Kew
    Legal status: Public Record(s)


    UK, Recommendations for Honours and Awards Index, 1935-1990
    Name: Samuel Robert Palmer
    Publication Date: 11 Oct 1945
    Rank: W/CH
    Service Number: 1945586
    Regiment or Unit: Corps of Royal Engineers
    Theatre of Combat or Operation: North West Europe 1944-1945
    Award: British Empire Medal
    Date of Action or Award: 1945
    URL: http://discovery.nationalarchi...


    Perhaps contact and ask - Corps of Royal Engineers - British Army Website

    TD
     
  6. dbf

    dbf Moderatrix MOD

    To me that's looking more and more like a transcript error by TNA when they were indexing WO 373 (there are lots of them including surname spelling errors),

    It's not that clear on the recommendation itself when you zoom in ...

    As far as I'm concerned it's CPL, having been perhaps incorrectly typed and then corrected...
    Screen Shot 2017-11-10 at 22.32.00.png
     

    Attached Files:

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  7. Pat Atkins

    Pat Atkins Well-Known Member

    Thank you all for the help - much appreciated. (Edit: and for relocating this thread to an appropriate forum).

    Dbf is right (and I was wrong) about the clarity on the citation, and - now it's been pointed out - I can see a possible W/Cpl. I spoke to my mother, who knew Bert well but hasn't much interest in things military, and she doesn't think he ever rose to the exalted rank of sergeant-major, although I admit my first thought was a possible mistranscription of WOII. Bert emigrated to Australia and alas we don't have any papers or a wartime photo to help.

    As you can probably tell, WWII RE isn't exactly an area of expertise for me! Bert was running the MT for 25 Airfield Construction Group HQ, but I don't really understand what that entailed: was it a job for a corporal? Possibly so; the BEM citation suggests he was taking on a lot of responsibility for a relatively low rank, which would tally.

    Cheers, Pat.
     
    Last edited: Nov 11, 2017
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  8. Tricky Dicky

    Tricky Dicky Don'tre member

    :lol: maybe its a new rank W/CH = War substantive Chaplain :lol:

    TD
     
  9. Pat Atkins

    Pat Atkins Well-Known Member

    I'm fairly sure Bert wasn't that holy!
     
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  10. tmac

    tmac Senior Member

    I think dbf is right and it's definitely W/CPL. If you look at the letters A and L in Palmer, you'll see that the L is jammed up close to the A (there is no spacing between them). In a similar way, the L is jammed close to the P in W/CPL, making it look like a capital H. I'd say it was simply a mechanical defect with the letter L on the original typewriter.
     
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  11. Trux

    Trux 21 AG

    Transport Corporal sound right. Many units had a Transport Corporal who was responsible for the unit drivers and had only limited responsibility for the vehicles.

    Since the citation mentions 'gallant' service I would assume that he performed some specific act of gallantry.

    Mike
     
  12. Pat Atkins

    Pat Atkins Well-Known Member

    Thanks Mike, Transport Corporal looks like it fits; I'd assume any gallantry would have been non-combat (given the award and the role), and I don't suppose we'll find out. My mother remembers Bert saying when he got home that the award was for the unit, really, and he felt he was just picking it up on their behalf.

    Good spot tmac: those typed 'L's are very chummy. W/Cpl it is, I think.

    Well, you've cracked it folks - thanks again to you all.

    Cheers, Pat.
     

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