Sapper Henderson at Dunkirk

Discussion in 'Searching for Someone & Military Genealogy' started by Charley Fortnum, Aug 29, 2017.

  1. Charley Fortnum

    Charley Fortnum Dreaming of Red Eagles

    I've been contacted by a friend whose family has been inspired by the recent Dunkirk film to research the war service of their father/grandfather. He suffered very badly from PTSD after the war, and--as we've heard so often--the subject was completely taboo in their household. Obviously, I've sent him off to apply for the service records and told him what is possible, but I do have some small details and hoped that some of you here might be able to turn up the basics for him in the meantime.

    Name: James Blake Henderson
    Date of Birth: 15th Jan 1920
    Service Number: 2048681

    (Royal Engineers' Service Block Allocation: 1842001 - 2303000 - so that tallies).

    He is believed to have been a territorial at some stage (presumably for a brief period), and trained at 'Clumber Park (?)' in Nottinghamshire. He was in France in 1940 and was--we think--posted to Leeds on return from Dunkirk.

    The only real detail of his active service that is known is that on boarding a boat/ship at Dunkirk he slipped off the gangway and fell into the water. In danger of being crushed between the dock/pier and the boat, a man (maybe in the same regiment) called Gordon Tron, hauled him up by the collar and--all assume--saved his life. The two men were devoted friends for life after that.

    Grateful for anything you can muster.
     
    Last edited: Aug 29, 2017
  2. amberdog45

    amberdog45 Senior Member

    Service number not bringing up anything in Casualty Lists at findmypast at least
     
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  3. Charley Fortnum

    Charley Fortnum Dreaming of Red Eagles

    Thank you for taking a look.
     
  4. Guy Hudson

    Guy Hudson Looker-upper

    James Blake Henderson
    Born : 15th January 1920
    Died : 1Q 1990 Gateshead

    Clumber Park, Nottinghamshire was used by the Royal Engineers during both wars.

    Winston Churchill's innovative war machine tested in Notts | When 'Nellie' Came to Clumber | SECOND WORLD WAR IN NOTTINGHAMSHIRE | Notts Topics | Our Nottinghamshire

    Clumber Park and the Second World War

    I couldn't find Gordon Tron. I did find these two men, both from the North East :

    Walter Goldthorpe TRON
    Born : 20th March 1912 Died : 2 Q 1984 Gateshead.
    Walter G TRON married in Leeds 2 Q 1946

    Frederick George TRON
    Born : 7th April 1915 Died : 1 Q 1982 Newcastle upon Tyne

    Neither of these men appear in the casualty or pow records.
     
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  5. Drew5233

    Drew5233 #FuturePilot 1940 Obsessive

    Let me know if you ID the unit James-I'll already have the war diary and you can have a copy for free.
     
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  6. Charley Fortnum

    Charley Fortnum Dreaming of Red Eagles

    Guy, thank you for doing the digging--can probably assume the first is him. Will pass the details onto my friend.

    Andy, very good of you--I've mentioned War Diaries to him and he's filling in the paperwork for the MOD now.
    As soon as we get the unit, I'll be in touch.
     
    Last edited: Aug 30, 2017
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  7. Guy Hudson

    Guy Hudson Looker-upper

    CF,
    I couldn't find a Gordon Tron at all.
    I wonder if it could be one of the other Tron's?
    Walter married in Leeds just after the war, his wife died in Gateshead in 1998.

    Frederick Tron's brother John was killed in an accident on 2nd June 1940.

    320885 Trooper John Lough TRON 9th Queens Royal Lancers age 20

    Casualty Details

    Guy
     
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  8. Charley Fortnum

    Charley Fortnum Dreaming of Red Eagles

    Guy, many thanks for further work.

    My friend is wondering whether perhaps his mother may have misremembered the name, and whether it could be your Frederick who--speculation here--went under his middle name (very common).

    He is checking on what I've received, but things are complicated by his being an ex-pat and having to phone home.
     
  9. Charley Fortnum

    Charley Fortnum Dreaming of Red Eagles

    Can anybody glean anything from these (yes, I know it's annoying that the top is cropped off)?

    image1.JPG image2.JPG
     
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  10. Guy Hudson

    Guy Hudson Looker-upper

    CF,
    The second photograph is later in the war, the General Service Tam replaced the side cap. His cap badge is Royal Engineers.
    It's nice to put a name to a face, thanks for posting.
    Guy
     
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  11. Charley Fortnum

    Charley Fortnum Dreaming of Red Eagles

    Here's a weird question: do you think he's wearing false teeth / dentures?
     
  12. Tricky Dicky

    Tricky Dicky Don'tre member

    Hi Charley

    Not as weird as you might think. I think many had false teeth as it completely reduced the risk of soldiers having problems with toothache when in areas (of war/battle) where medical assistance could not be provided to resolve the problem. Hence the military efficiency of a unit was not diminished.

    TD
     
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  13. Charley Fortnum

    Charley Fortnum Dreaming of Red Eagles

    Interesting you say that--we also have the following as a possibly exaggerated family tale:

    Apparently in France, to avoid falling bombs, he hid in an Ambulance under a pile of his dead comrades. Another tale was when he needed a tooth pulling by the Army Dentist, he was so scared he asked to be knocked out and have all of his teeth removed so that he wouldn't have to ever do it again.They gave him a pearly set of new, white false teeth.
     
  14. Charley Fortnum

    Charley Fortnum Dreaming of Red Eagles

    Right, we're getting there: date of death confirmed as He died on 2nd January 1990, a few days short of his 70th.

    We now have enough to apply for his service records, so I'll be back with those once the arrive.

    What's the turnaround from the MOD lately?
     
  15. Tricky Dicky

    Tricky Dicky Don'tre member

    England & Wales, Civil Registration Death Index, 1916-2007
    Name: James Blake Henderson
    Death Age: 70
    Birth Date: 15 Jan 1920
    Registration Date: Jan 1990
    Registration district: Gateshead
    Inferred County: Tyne and Wear
    Volume: 2
    Page: 106
     
  16. Charley Fortnum

    Charley Fortnum Dreaming of Red Eagles

    Friend received the folllowing:

    You have applied for copies of the above named ex-serviceman’s service records as a General Enquirer; however if you are his next of kin or able to provide the consent of his next of kin I will be able to provide you with a more complete copy of his records which will include any family and personal details recorded.

    If you wish your enquiry to be treated as a Family Interest enquiry and not a General Enquiry please complete and sign the attached kinship form and return it to me. If however you wish to proceed as a 3rd party enquirer please let me know and I will continue to process your enquiry under the MOD Publication Scheme.
    ----------------------------------------------------

    A death certificate showing that he died more than twenty-five years ago was enclosed with the application. I had thought that in that case the same information would me available to both 'classes' of application.

    Am I wrong?
     
  17. Guy Hudson

    Guy Hudson Looker-upper

    CF,
    I received some service records last month, all next of kin and wound details were blanked out. I did find out where he kept his Post Office savings though !!!
    As next of kin, I assume you would receive this full disclosure. There appears to have been a change of policy, previously I have received service records listing marriages, births and wounds described.
     
  18. Tricky Dicky

    Tricky Dicky Don'tre member

    Guy

    Did they send you a request as above?, did you say you were not a relative, I assume they have assumed you are not a relative and therefore reduced the amount of info you receive.
    Have you queried the point?
    TD
     
  19. Guy Hudson

    Guy Hudson Looker-upper

    TD,
    The only correspondence I receieved was to expect a wait.
    I applied with a death certificate, I didn't know his service number or Regiment and he wasn't a relative.
    Guy
     
  20. Charley Fortnum

    Charley Fortnum Dreaming of Red Eagles

    While I haven't had actual sight of the records myself, I now have some more information on this soldier:

    He joined 234 Field Company, Royal Engineers on 19/2/38. Enlistment papers signed by a Lieut.John Bartlett Dodds.

    Q) Was this a regular army or a territorial unit?

    He attended Denwich Camp for two weeks at the end of June 1938 before being sent to Malton for 2 weeks.

    His unit served with the BEF between 29/9/39 and 1/6/40. I have requested the War Diary for this period.

    He remained with 234 Fd-Coy on return to the UK until be posted to 'MET wing S.M.E. Newark' on 8/12/42

    Q) Do I have this correctly as Mechanical Engineering Training Wing of the School of Military Engineering?

    He was subsequently posted to the following units:

    875 ME PK COY: 20/4/43
    883 ME COY: 8/5/44

    Q) Does anybody have any information on either unit?

    With 883-Coy he was then sent to NWE (18/8/44 to 24/7/45).
    And then to CMF (10/11/45 to 9/4/46).

    Q) Is anybody able to locate 883-Coy during 1944-46 or is the diary required?

    I have turned up a couple of snippets on 234 Fd-Coy here:

    234 Field Coy. Re

    Q) Does anybody have any suggestions for research into 234-Fd Coy and 883 ME-Coy beyond consulting the unit diaries?
     

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