School master Alan Kidd Australian Royal navy

Discussion in 'The War at Sea' started by General Knowledge, Oct 7, 2020.

  1. General Knowledge

    General Knowledge Well-Known Member

    Hi , my curiosity is about this young man. His rank on CWGC is listed as Schoolmaster. Can anyone explain please? Thank you
    Linda
     
  2. DannyM

    DannyM Member

    Hi,
    This website has some information on this rank Warrant Rank in the Royal Navy

    Below is a short extract from the page. There is a lot more on the website.

    Regards

    Danny

    Origins
    Warrant Officers have always been specialists carried on board ships for specific responsibilities requiring a very high level of experience and detailed knowledge. These attributes were not expected of the "fighting" officers who were primarily concerned with the tactics necessary to make contact with the enemy and then to "fight" the ship. To do this successfully it was essential for warships to carry others who would ensure that the ship was always in a high state of readiness. It had to be well maintained and its guns always ready for use, with ample charges and projectiles. More importantly it had to be in the right place at the right time. These specialists were attached to the ship throughout its life, whether in commission, or "in ordinary" ("laid up"). They did not hold a King's, or Queen's Commission, but had a Warrant signed by members of the Board of Admiralty

    Schoolmaster - General teaching requirements.
    In 1843 The Master and the Chaplain were given Commissioned rank. A further change in 1861 granted a Commission to Schoolmasters engaged in the instruction of naval officers in shore training establishments. They were renamed "Naval Instructors", but those serving on ships retained the "Schoolmaster" title with added distinctions of "Senior Master" and "Headmaster" for those having greater responsibilities. These titles remained in use until 1946 when all Schoolmasters were given Commissioned rank as Instructor Officers.



    Warrant Officers of all specialisations had to be capable of carrying out instructional duties ashore and afloat. This criteria still pertains to-day.
     
  3. travers1940

    travers1940 Well-Known Member

    He was a Warrant Officer. A National Archives link says this:

    A warrant officer was a sailor who became an officer by being awarded a warrant. Warrant officers are junior to commissioned officers and senior to ratings. Warrant officers include: master, purser, boatswain, gunner, carpenter, surgeon, armourer, chaplain, cook, master at arms, sailmaker and schoolmaster.
    Royal Navy warrant officers - The National Archives
     
  4. General Knowledge

    General Knowledge Well-Known Member

    Thank you so much for that, something else to add to my knowledge .
     
  5. Robert-w

    Robert-w Banned

    According to an Admiralty Order of 1942 on pay rates a RAN Schoolmaster was a warrant officer as was a Senior Master but Head Masters were Lieutentants and Lt Commanders
     
  6. Robert-w

    Robert-w Banned

    From 1935 (at least) RAN School Master hierarchy went as follows
    • Schoolmaster candidate
    • Probationary schoolmaster
    • Schoolmaster (Warrant Officer)
    • Senior Master
    • Head Master (Lieutenant)
    • Head Master (Lieutenant Commander)
    The table in the Admiralty order implies that one had to have done at least a year as Probationary schoolmaster before becoming Schoolmaster (Warrant Officer)
     
    Last edited: Oct 8, 2020
  7. timuk

    timuk Well-Known Member

    Ref: Navy List Oct 1940 P662/3
    The hierarchy went:
    Headmaster - Commissioned officer
    Senior Master - Commissioned officer or Commissioned Officer from Warrant Rank
    Schoolmaster - Commissioned officer from Warrant rank or Warrant Rank
    upload_2020-10-8_17-36-53.png
    Alan Kidd though was of Warrant Rank.
    upload_2020-10-8_17-38-20.png

    Tim
     
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  8. Robert-w

    Robert-w Banned

    Would suggest that either the RN and RAN differed or matters had changed by 1942
    see A.F.O. 3193/42
     
  9. timuk

    timuk Well-Known Member

    Immaterial as Alan Kidd died Dec 1940.

    Tim
     
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  10. Robert-w

    Robert-w Banned

    Not really if RAN differed from RN but I was just trying to put schoolmaster in context
     
  11. Richelieu

    Richelieu Well-Known Member

    His records are available at NAA.

    Interestingly, his appointment to Schoolmaster was backdated to 1/7/1937, the date he had been appointed Schoolmaster Candidate (On Probation) - I wonder whether this was customary or reflected prior civilian experience.
     
    timuk likes this.

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