Seaman Alfred Wilson HMS Maxim

Discussion in 'Non-Commemorated War Dead' started by Owen Ap Benfro, Nov 13, 2012.

  1. Seeking information on Seaman Alfred Wilson of HMS Maxim aged 48 yrs had resided at Pretty, Amlwch Anglesey.
    Killed in a fall from the Quay at Pembroke Dock August 1947 whilst returning to his ship.
    Does not appear listed CWGC.
    Rgds
    Owen Ap Benfro
     
  2. chrisharley9

    chrisharley9 Senior Member

    Evening Owen

    I can confirm that he is not on the Naval GRO Register for WW2. There is a local DC ref

    Chris
     
  3. Name ALFRED WILSON
    Registration district: Pembroke
    County: Pembrokeshire
    Year of registration: 1947
    Quarter of registration: Jul-Aug-Sep
    Age at death:48
    Volume no: 8C
    Page no: 306

    This seems to be the man. Would he have qualified for War Grave status?

    Roger
     
    CL1 likes this.
  4. Hugh MacLean

    Hugh MacLean Senior Member

    Would he have qualified for War Grave status?

    Roger

    Hello Roger,


    The Commission commemorates those who died during the First and Second World Wars in service or of causes attributable to service.

    For WW2 the relevant dates are 3 September 1939 to 31 December 1947.

    So based on that I would say yes.....someone correct me if I am wrong please.

    Regards
    Hugh
     
  5. chrisharley9

    chrisharley9 Senior Member

    Hugh

    you are correct on the date range

    A DC will be required in this case to prove his status at time of death

    Chris
     
  6. Hugh MacLean

    Hugh MacLean Senior Member

    Thanks for the confirmation Chris.

    Regards
    Hugh
     
  7. If anyone wishes to pursue a claim for War Grave status for Alfred Wilson. This site may be of use.
    IFCP - War Grave Criteria

    Roger
     
  8. chrisharley9

    chrisharley9 Senior Member

    Roger

    Im a member of IFCP. I will see what Owen wants to do as we do not poach others cases without permission

    Chris
     
  9. Dear All
    Please forgive my tardyness in reply. Illness (Big 'C') and other health reasons, can mean delays in forum answers from me.
    I can confirm Seaman Wilson's death, his inquest, his being part of the crew of HMS Maxim (not done any research on ship). Fully aware of death registration, verdict of inquest was "accidential death" by the Coroner Colonel Kelway. I am aware of the circumstances of the fall, and 2 wittnesses who attended the inquest.
    Wilson is just one of a good few dozen persons from my research into Pembrokeshire Military related headstones between the years of 1714 and 2010(currnetly some 5,700 entries), who I am aware of are not listed on CWGC for the correct periods of W.W. 1 and 2, not to mention the far more errors in the detail shown on the CWGC website, misspelt names, wrong locations, wrong dates etc.
    The most interesting error to date I have is an Army Officer in W.W. 1 who is listed by CWGC on Ploegsteert Memorial as MPD, who I can prove was alive in hospital in Switzerland at least 6 weeks later than the CWGC date given that he died and for whom I have the burial site.
    Mind ~ the wife of a naval rating who was killed in W.W. 2 in an air raid, then interred, only for the body of the correct wife to be found 5 days later by her husband, the grave opened, the correct brass name plaque changed, the correct women then interred and the now unknown woman interred elsewhere in the cemetery must rank high in amazing stories.
    With reference to Wilson he is not buried in Pembroke area, so I am presuming, like so many others, his body was returned to Amlwch village for burial, I wonder if he had a CWGC style headstones or a family headstone?
    Rgds
    Owen Ap Benfro
     
  10. chrisharley9

    chrisharley9 Senior Member

    Owen

    Im happy to obtain the DC in the case of Alfred Wilson & progress the case through IFCP if you wish

    Cheers

    Chris
     
  11. Im happy to obtain the DC in the case of Alfred Wilson & progress the case through IFCP if you wish

    Chris

    Please proceed with Alfred as you see fit. I will leave his commemoration in your hands.

    You may also wish to pursue the following ;

    Not found on CWGC
    # Gunner J. Connor 44 Cpy R.G.A. died 03 Aug 1916 buried Pembroke Dock Military Cemetery, non CWGC headstone.
    # O. Kenna Remembered on memorial to those who died W.W. 1 at Monkton St Nichloas Church. ON CWGC SEE BELOW
    # J. Mason Remembered on memorial to those who died W.W. 1 at Monkton St Nichloas Church. ON CWGC SEE BELOW
    # John Roberts This is believed to be John Henry Roberts who was baptized at Monkton 25 Sept 1891 son of William Henry and Martha Roberts of Long Mains. Joined up in 1915. Killed in action in France with the Royal Field Artillery.
    # Boy Sailor Lewis Westrop. HMS Formidable died 08th Aug 1918 aged 17 yrs buried at Llanion Cemetery in plot R. 254. Has naval type metal headstone as seen on similar Naval burials of the time. I believe his full name to be Lewis I. Randleshume Westrop
    THIS ONE WILL BE A PROBLEM AS NO DC REF CAN BE FOUND NOR A NAVAL SERVICE RECORD; IM OPEN TO SUGGESTIONS
    # Berrtie T. Jenkins ex navy but was discharged through ill health brought on by service in HM Forces and died in 1918. Died a civilian, but really should be listed CWGC. Burial date and location is known to me. I have a number of others discharged from the forces and died civilians during the periods 1914-1920 and 1939-1947. ON CWGC BUT BURIAL PLACE NEEDED
    # Lieut Ivor Ellis Gooch of Manchester House Bridge St Haverfordwest died 26th July 1941. Only released by the Army a few days prior to his death, he had suffered a heart attack whilst out shopping. Died a civilian, but really should be listed CWGC. Burial date and location is known to me.
    # Fire Officer A.D. Reynolds, died in the explosion at Victoria Docks Bombay India on the 14th April 1944. He had previous lived at 12 Hill St Haverfordwest before proceeding overseas. CWGC have confirmed they do not consider this to be a War Death ~ Why? HE WAS NOT MILITARY & AS A CIVILIAN HIS DEATH WAS NOT DUE TO ENEMY ACTION
    # Doris Jeremiah, her headstone reads “died Oct 20 1944 aged 20 years she gave her life so others may live” unquote. Circumstances not known, may have died in air raid, but death registered at Cardigan.
    # Eric J. (Jacky) Jeremiah (brother to Doris) headstone reads “Who died from the effects of the war 17 Dec 1949 aged 27. Whilst death falls outside correct time frame it was the war that caused his death and perhaps should be considered. Assue Eric was close by to Doris at the time of her death. CWGC contacted for both Eric and Doris but no answer received. CWGC WILL NOT CONSIDER ANY CASULATY OUTSIDE OF THE CUTOFF DATES WHICH FOR WW2 IS 31/12/1947
    # Civilians Mrs Annie Brazil and her daughter Kathleen Brazil, killed in air raid on Pembroke Dock May 1941, not listed CWGC, like the others killed in the same air raid. ON CWGC SEE BELOW
    # Engr Officer M.N. Lewis Robson who lost his life through enemy action 14 Feb 1942 aged 48 yrs. Remembered in St Dogmael’s St Thomas Churchyard Pembroke SEE BELOW

    Simple errors
    # Pvte W.H. Cure, headstone reads died 16 January 1915, CWGC database reads died 16 July 1915
    # Canteen Manager W.G. Brickle 08 Nov 1942 CWGC show ship as HMS Watney, should read HMS Walney sunk Oran Harbour 08 Nov 1942..

    These are but a few that I am aware of. Thinking I was doing the right thing, I informed CWGC of their omissions and errors. There response was clear, so gave up long ago. No doubt you are better placed and more knowledgeable than I, so will perhaps make better headway or better still clarify idents I have missed.

    Rgds
    Owen Ap Benfro
     
  12. Hugh MacLean

    Hugh MacLean Senior Member

    # Engr Officer M.N. Lewis Robson who lost his life through enemy action 14 Feb 1942 aged 48 yrs. Remembered in St Dogmael’s St Thomas Churchyard Pembroke

    Owen,

    Just to let you know that the man quoted above is commemorated by the CWGC - his full name is Lewis Robson Thomas lost on ss BIELA.

    Regards
    Hugh
     
  13. Just to let you know that the man quoted above is commemorated by the CWGC - his full name is Lewis Robson Thomas lost on ss BIELA.

    Hugh
    Many thanks, I'm always pleased when anyone finds my mistakes. Looking back at my jpeg of his family headstone, had I read it correctly, I would have seen the name in full as you show.
    Rgds
    Owen Ap Benfro
     
  14. chrisharley9

    chrisharley9 Senior Member

    Will be marking up Owen's post above with notes in red so we can keep track of this easily

    JENKINS, BERTIE

    Rank:Shipwright 2nd ClassService No:M22936Date of Death:05/05/1918Age:21Regiment/Service:Royal NavyH.M.S. "Victory II" Panel ReferenceAddenda PanelMemorialPORTSMOUTH NAVAL MEMORIALAdditional Information:




    N.B.

    This casualty has recently been accepted for commemoration by the Commission However, it will not be possible to add his name to this memorial immediately. Please contact the Commission, before planning a visit, for more information

    If you let me have his burial place this would be appreciated

    He was an IFCP case a little while ago but we did not know his burial place.

    Shipwright Jenkins died post-discharge of bronchiectasis - he was accepted for commemoration by CWGC 6/4/2012

    Chris
     
  15. chrisharley9

    chrisharley9 Senior Member

    BRIZEL, ANNIE ROWLAND

    Rank:CivilianDate of Death:12/05/1941Age:43Regiment/Service:Civilian War DeadReporting AuthorityPEMBROKE, MUNICIPAL BOROUGH, WALESAdditional Information:

    of 6 Gwyther Street, Pembroke Dock. Widow of William Brizel. Died at 6 Gwyther Street.

    BRIZEL, KATHLEEN

    Rank:CivilianDate of Death:12/05/1941Age:21Regiment/Service:Civilian War DeadReporting AuthorityPEMBROKE, MUNICIPAL BOROUGH, WALESAdditional Information:

    of 6 Gwyther Street, Pembroke Dock. Dughter of Annie Rowland Brizel, and of the late William Brizel. Died at 6 Gwyther Street.
     
  16. chrisharley9

    chrisharley9 Senior Member

    KENNEA, OWEN

    Rank:SapperService No:51656Date of Death:27/05/1915Regiment/Service:Royal Engineers90th Field Coy. Grave ReferenceB. 11.CemeterySTEENWERCK COMMUNAL CEMETERYAdditional Information:

    Son of the late George and Margaret Kennea.
     
  17. chrisharley9

    chrisharley9 Senior Member

    MASON, J

    Rank:Stoker 1st ClassService No:229299Date of Death:21/10/1917Regiment/Service:Royal NavyH.M.S. "Marmion." Grave ReferenceI. B. 8.CemeteryFREDRIKSTAD MILITARY CEMETERYThe Pembrokeshire War Memorials site shows his details against Monkton & Pembroke War Memorial
     
  18. chrisharley9

    chrisharley9 Senior Member

    The 2 errors above have now been reported to CWGC
     
  19. chrisharley9

    chrisharley9 Senior Member

    Owen

    are you prepared to share any documentary evidence with IFCP before we start on any of the cases; Im about to order Alfred's DC but would like to see more before I start

    Cheers

    Chris
     
  20. chrisharley9

    chrisharley9 Senior Member

    Owen

    Connor died in 1910 & Westop in 1913

    Chris
     

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