Searching info

Hi folks. I’m a newbie on here searching for info on my grandfather. He died during WW2 when my dad was around 3-5 years old. Not 100% sure what year as we have no death certificate. However we do have a marriage certificate. It states Cyril Frank Milner was in 53rd Coy RASC. He may have been known as Francis Milner. He was at the Victoria Barracks in Belfast 16/01/37. Any help/advice will be grateful.

 

Hello Darren
you will need to apply for his service records
Get a copy of military service records
Im sure a forum member will be along shortly to assist further

there are a number deaths of C F Milner deaths registered during that period

What area was he born /married
Do you have wifes name
Anything else of interest

regards
Clive

 

Can you post a copy of the marriage certificate and any other details you have - maybe details from your fathers birth certificate to match up a mothers maiden name etc

TD

 

Wife’s name Ruby Iris Chambers. Married in Belfast. 16/01/37.

 

I don’t know his DOB. I know he was 22 when he was married and where he lived. I have his regiment but that’s it.

 

I would still like to see a copy of the marriage certificate. Also we now know a little more as we have an approximate year of birth which we did not have before.

Deleted part of this post as the details were incorrect

TD

 

He was 22 when married in 1937. So makes his date DOB 1914-1915. He’s place of birth will be West Yorkshire possibly

 

If you can send me your email address I can send the marriage cert. I cant paste it into here for some reason.

 

Checking the 1939 Register for a Ruby Iris Milner results in:


Ruby Milner 25 Mar 1886 Worcestershire, England William A

Ruby L Milner 26 Sep 1903 Sussex, England May

Ruby M Milner 4 Oct 1908 Middlesex, England William D

Ruby L Milner 10 Sep 1911 Leicestershire, England Sidney T

Ruby I Milner 6 Nov 1913 Yorkshire (West Riding), England

According to their birth dates none of these would fit with your relative as they are obviously too old. My presumption from the above is that as they married in Belfast [would really like to see the marriage certificate] they either stayed in Northern ireland or he was already signed up and they moved overseas. It appears they were not in Enland & Wales in 1939

TD

 

Married in Belfast 1937. CF Milner died during WW2. Date unknown. Born in Huddersfield I think. RI Milner moved back to Huddersfield after death. She re married to a William Hey late 40’s I think. Cheers

 

OK - so whats going on here - everything so far from yourself has been guesswork, there has been no real facts

Is your fathers name Frank Henry Milner - if so he was born 15 Oct 1937, which would be at or around exactly the same date as his parents married in Belfast. Northern Ireland [as Scotland] keep their own records so you would need to apply there for his birth certificate which may provide details of his father and help you on your way.

As yet I can find no death for a Cyril Milner between 1939 and 1945 - do you have any idea where he died

The other interesting information to note is that in the 1939 Register there is a Ruby Iris Milner [who later married a Mr Hey] but her marital status is shown as 'Single'
Name: Ruby I Milner
[Ruby I Hey]
Gender: Female
Marital Status: Single
Birth Date: 6 Nov 1913
Residence Year: 1939
Address: ??ly Bank Road 28
Residence Place: Huddersfield, Yorkshire (West Riding), England

TD

 

I have tried a search for deaths of Milner (Military & Civilian) with possible combinations of Cyril, Frank and Francis [and even without any of those] between 1939 and 1945 - results = zero

TD

 

I have also sent you a conversation with my email address to send me the marriage certificate. Check your profile page to see the conversation

TD

 

Order a copy of a birth, death, marriage or civil partnership certificate - Belfast City Council

OR

General Register Office for Northern Ireland | nidirect

OR

PRONI Enquiry Service | nidirect

Strongly suggest you focus on finding a copy of their marriage certificate

TD

 

Like others, there seems to be something inconsistent.
I can't imagine the marriage details would be incorrect, the Army should have got the facts correct, so it looks as if the only way we can square this circle is for you to apply for his Service records, using the details from a copy of his marriage certificate. It should show his fathers name etc.

There is only ONE Cyril Frank death recorded in the CWGC for an RASC casualty
MANN, CYRIL FRANK. Lance Corporal. Service Number S/198804. Died 04/07/1941. Aged 25
Royal Army Service Corps.
Son of Mr. and Mrs. W. F. Mann; husband of Margaret L. Mann, of Chesham, Buckinghamshire.

As you can see, that doesn't fit easily with what you say. Age might fit at a squeeze, but it could be a bigamous marriage, or that they split soon after and "Milner" resumed his proper name..... Separation could allow Ruby to describe herself as single in 1939, but it doesn't appear she had a child with her.

His age might have been "incorrect, there is an Electoral Roll entry
Electoral Roll Name: Cyril Milner. Year: 1935. West Yorkshire
Parliamentary Division: Don Valley. Place of Abode: Laneside, Don Valley
and in 1935 the age was 21 before you could vote, pushing him into 1914 range for DoB
Laneside is only some 6 miles from the centre of Huddersfield.

What else can you find out from family members? Anyone recall when he died, where? Date may give us a clue to where he could have been fighting and thus what units he might have been involved with.

You should be prepared for the info that he died to be "incorrect" as there doesn't appear to be a CWGC entry for him....
Was your father the Frank Henry Milner TD asked about in Post #12? Perhaps if we pinned him down we might better reconstruct things

 

OK I have now attached the copy of the "Marriage Certificate" that Darren has mentioned previously.

However I note that no one has actually signed it anywhere, so is it a real one and if so is it legal as it stands??

Or - is a blank that has been filled in for whatever reason

Sorry Darren - we need to ask these questions as we are looking at it in the cold light of day

TD

 

So her father - I can only find 1 that fits the bill at the moment

Ireland, Civil Registration Births Index, 1864-1958
Name: Samuel Alexander Chambers
Date of Registration: 1866
Registration district: Newry
Birth Country: Ireland
Volume: 6
Page: 890
FHL Film Number: 101043

As for his father
1911 England Census
Name: Henry Coultas Milner
Age in 1911: 29
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1882
Relation to Head: Head
Gender: Male
Birth Place: Newholm Cum Dunsley, Yorkshire, England
Civil Parish: Lindley cum Quarmby
Search Photos: Search for 'Lindley cum Quarmby' in the UK City, Town and Village Photos collection
County/Island: Yorkshire-West Riding
Country: England
Street address: 46 Oakes Rd Lindley Huddersfield Yorkshire
Marital Status: Married
Occupation: Joiner
Registration district: Huddersfield
Registration District Number: 495
Sub-registration district: Lockwood
ED, institution, or vessel: 19
Piece: 26342
Household Members:
Name Age
Henry Coultas Milner 29
Clara Milner 23
Kennith Milner 2
Kathleen Milner 6/12

Then in the 1939 Register
Name: Henry Milner
Gender: Male
Marital Status: Married
Birth Date: 12 Dec 1881
Residence Year: 1939
Address: 48
Residence Place: Huddersfield, Yorkshire (West Riding), England
Occupation: Dairy Farmer
Schedule Number: 17
Sub Schedule Number: 1
Enumeration District: KFIX
Registration district: 495/8
Household Members:
Name
Henry Milner
Clarice Milner
This record is officially closed.
Peter Milner

Not sure how he would have gone from a chauffeur in 1937 to a dairy Farmer in 1939, thats a big leap in terms of occupation especially at about 58 years of age

TD