Sgt John Weston Sampson 4391075 7th Bn Green Howards

Discussion in 'Searching for Someone & Military Genealogy' started by Steve Wakefield, Dec 26, 2012.

  1. Owen

    Owen -- --- -.. MOD

    How would we get a copy of Sgt Ushers citation for his MM?
    £3.36 from here, some of us can get them free but takes awhile to look them up.
    | The National Archives


    • Reference:WO 373/21/249
    • Name Usher, Geoffrey Frederick
    • Rank: Serjeant
    • Service No: 4391050
    • Regiment: 7 Battalion The Green Howards
    • Theatre of Combat or Operation: Middle East (Egypt and Libya)
    • Award: Military Medal
    • Date of Announcement in London Gazette: 24 September 1942
     
  2. Steve Wakefield

    Steve Wakefield Junior Member

    The other mystery of course is how my father in law, captured on 28th June 1942, got hold of a handwritten citation, which was written 5 days later, when he was in an Italian/German hospital camp having his legs mended, then spending another 3 years in POW camps.
    Through the mist of time it's uncertain.
    Either the Officer ended up in the same POW camp with him and handed it over, or when he was mistakenly listed as killed (which is why he was on Bridlington War Memorial when still very much alive) his papers and citation were sent to his fiance later his wife, or he possibly did his own search post war.
    The latter I very much doubt as he was a very humble man.
    If it came from an official source then surely a record would have existed or exists, which then begs the question as to why no action was taken over the award.
     
  3. Steve Wakefield

    Steve Wakefield Junior Member

    Wow you guys are quick.
    Thanks Owen.
     
  4. Drew5233

    Drew5233 #FuturePilot 1940 Obsessive

    If he became a PoW I would see if there's a POW Questionnaire that he completed. They are at the National Archives. Lee (Psyc-war.org) copies them quite cheaply.
     
  5. Owen

    Owen -- --- -.. MOD

    Sgt Usher's recommendation for MM.
    compare text to the one you posted earlier.
     

    Attached Files:

  6. Drew5233

    Drew5233 #FuturePilot 1940 Obsessive

    I've seen the same citation used for more than one man before with just the names changed when I've been looking at BEF awards. It's not common but it did happen.

    Thinking out of the box a little-did Sgt Usher get captured? I'm wondering if the CO or Company Commander could have thought Sampson was killed so gave the medal to Usher instead?
     
  7. Steve Wakefield

    Steve Wakefield Junior Member

    I now have citation for Sgt Usher.
    The similarity is disturbing. Uncanny.

    1st sentence exactly the same, word for word, except for name.
    Sgt Usher also "organised the column" and also got the column through "Divisional Gap"
    He also "led his section into the attack with the greatest courage and determination"
    after encountering "an enemy force in the Mrassus area".

    Johns is hand writtan at Bde HQ El Alamein on 2nd July
    Sgt Ushers is typed up, on a W3121 form,dated 6th July with Cooke - Collis, Brigadier, and Auchinleck cross signing.

    No B.Davis though.Was he an adjutant to Lt Colonel Gibbon?

    A final sentence has been crossed out. "Sgt Ushers devotion to duty over a long period has been an inspiration to his men".
    A date seeming to indicate date of action? as 14 Jun 1942 has been altered to *4 Jun 1942, yet the account clearly states 15th June.

    Fuddled our brains are.
     
  8. Steve Wakefield

    Steve Wakefield Junior Member

    Andy - you just leap frogged us with the thinking, but out of respect for Sgt Usher didn't want to post.
    I just said to my wife that, given the almost rout of our North Africa forces, loss of Tobruk, a less than pleased Mr Churchill, a war going down the plughole nearly everywhere, then the need to pin a gong on the maximum number of "heroes", especially those non posthumous or missing in action, for publication in the press as a morale booster, may have led to the medal going to the next available man.

    Mind you if Sgt Usher was there in amongst that flying lead, then I have nothing but respect for him too. They should probably all have had medals.

    Interested in the POW form. Not heard of that before.
     
  9. Steve Wakefield

    Steve Wakefield Junior Member

    I have just found 2/Lt Geoffrey Frederick Usher.MM
    Sadly he is in a War Cemetery at Catania, Italy. KIA 14/7/1943
    RIP

    I have always said to my lady wife that had her Dad not been made POW in 1942, no doubt he would have done something heroic later and ended up dead.
     
  10. Steve Wakefield

    Steve Wakefield Junior Member

    Presume it to be the same GF Usher, as service number seems to have changed.
     
  11. Drew5233

    Drew5233 #FuturePilot 1940 Obsessive

    OR's service numbers change if they get a commision. The fact he has a MM (Only given to OR's) and not a MC would suggest to me its the same chap.
     
  12. Owen

    Owen -- --- -.. MOD

    Attached Files:

  13. Owen

    Owen -- --- -.. MOD

    See he was with 5th East Yorks when killed.
    CWGC - Casualty Details

    seconded to 5th Bn. East Yorkshire Regiment
    So Commission in London Gazette in October after he was killed in July.
     
  14. Drew5233

    Drew5233 #FuturePilot 1940 Obsessive

    I have the diary if anyone is interested ?
     
  15. Steve Wakefield

    Steve Wakefield Junior Member

    Is it normal to give a commision posthumously?

    Wife just said if a commission can be given postumously, then why can't a MM be awarded after being taken POW??

    Oh and she says a big thankyou too.
     
  16. Drew5233

    Drew5233 #FuturePilot 1940 Obsessive

    London Gazette was behind what was happening in real time. He was an officer before he was killed.
     
  17. Drew5233

    Drew5233 #FuturePilot 1940 Obsessive

    Looks like he was killed (indirectly) by his own battalion.

    [​IMG]
     
  18. Owen

    Owen -- --- -.. MOD

  19. Steve Wakefield

    Steve Wakefield Junior Member

    Very very sad.

    I suppose the next step is to find out if John filled out a POW Questionnaire.
    Stalag VIIIB Lamsdorf, later 344.
    He was pretty crook in Italy, hospitals, operations etc, so this may have been deferred until some form of recovery had taken place.
    We have letters he wrote home from Lamsdorf. With wry humour he later named his house the same. " Lamsdorf", and apparently addressed the household end of day at bed time with "lights out" - in German!!
    We are reflecting quite soberly on his post war existence - without a medal, versus that of Geoffrey Usher's family, without their son.
    John went on to be a hugely well respected teacher in Bridlington, still well thought of all these years after his passing by ex-pupils we meet. Of course the love of my life would never have existed had roles been reversed.
     
  20. Owen

    Owen -- --- -.. MOD

    We are reflecting quite soberly on his post war existence - without a medal, versus that of Geoffrey Usher's family, without their son.
    John went on to be a hugely well respected teacher in Bridlington, still well thought of all these years after his passing by ex-pupils we meet. Of course the love of my life would never have existed had roles been reversed.
    Quite a thought provoking few words.
    I've enjoyed helping a little on here , it's helped pass a few hours on a rainy Saturday but in the end it's about 'Remembering'.
    :poppy:
     

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