Sgt John Weston Sampson 4391075 7th Bn Green Howards

Discussion in 'Searching for Someone & Military Genealogy' started by Steve Wakefield, Dec 26, 2012.

  1. Steve Wakefield

    Steve Wakefield Junior Member

    Owen.
    Thanks for your help. (and the earlier tidy up)
    One of the reasons I am interested in history, particularly when it is so personal, is its constant ability to throw up twists and turns - fate if you wish.
    The number of aircrew who survived the war, when a heavy fever or such ruled them off a mission and a bomber was destroyed. Or a guy who had come through so much only to suffer a cruel death shortly before the end of hostilities, perhaps through a selfless act of volunteering.
    I wish all their stories could be told, and have drummed it into my kids from an early age, to respect that very special generation at all costs.
    John knew the truth of the 15th June 1942. Thats probably all that matters.
    We have just found his letters, photo's etc from Lamsdorf. He was very ill and confused enough to think he was coming home soon; (he still thinks its 1942 the next year in spring '43).
    I think of all the veterans who live to replay the horror in their minds for years to come, and yet strive through to make a worthwhile life for the next generation.
     
  2. Steve Mac

    Steve Mac Very Senior Member

    Hello Steve, Owen, et al,

    GF Usher's Commission in the Green Howards was effective from 13 June 1943.

    It would have been unusual for him to stay in the same battalion that he served in as an 'OR', but presumably the 69th Infantry Brigade would have been keen to keep him; hence the posting to the 5th Bn East Yorkshire Regiment.

    He is not shown in the battalion history as taken on strength of the 5th Bn East Yorkshire Regiment as at the 3 July 1943. So, I assume his posting was after that date; probably just in time for Operation Husky on the 10 July 1943. Then KIA on 14 July 1943. :poppy:

    Just a thought about the MM recommendation for Sgt Sampson; you'll have to bear with me on this one because I am not too sure of my ground. However, if the recommendation can be proven authentic, original, etc., but never approved by 'Red Ted' Cooke-Collis, 'Crasher' Nichols and the 'Auk', shouldn't it become an MiD - even after all these years?

    Thoughts?

    Best,

    Steve.
     
    Last edited: Jun 9, 2019
  3. Steve Wakefield

    Steve Wakefield Junior Member

    I presume MiD to be Mentioned in Dispatches?
    That would certainly be a start. I suppose we need to try and track down the "compiler" of the document we have, who was at El Alamein.

    To get back to Johns war, I think a diary report such as that for the tragic death of 2/Lt Usher, and men, would give a more definitive account of activity on 15th June 1942, so it would be good to see that, and if possible tie it in with the written citation/dispatch that we have.

    We would also like to see if there is one for his section on 28th June 1042 the day of his wounding and subsequent capture.
    Johns description, always given in humour was that his carrier received a direct hit, and he woke in a shell hole to find a German infantryman pointing a bayonet at him and removing his watch. Apparently John actively encouraged him to take the watch!

    We turfed up a whole load of pictures yesterday, some in camp presumably pre or in between postings, plus a load of Lamsdorf stuff, including a flyer for a camp concert party, his letters home to his fiance, his medical card for Southport Hospital. Would this be of interest (not his letters)

    Strangely amongst them and amongst some medals was an award for the Italy Star, a theatre in which he obviously never served , except as a hospital patient.

    We have also thought that perhaps the paper report document we have, may have Johns name on instead of Sgt Usher.
     
  4. Steve Mac

    Steve Mac Very Senior Member

    Hello Steve,

    MiD = Mentioned in Dispatches.

    I believe the War Diaries for this period are probably the best way for you to continue the search along with the PoW questionnaire, both as Andy (handle 'Drew 5233') recommended at Messages #5 and 24 respectively.

    Given the reduced condition the 7th Bn Green Howards landed back at the Alamein line it may be that the War Diary was not written up for a while and the field returns could have been posted a month or two later. It would probably be worthwhile going for the whole of 1942: WO 169/5023 7 Green Howards (Alexandra, Princess of Wales's Own Yorkshire Regiment) 1942 Jan.- Dec. Andy provides a copying service which I have used - see his sign-off in red; he only copies whole files anyway!

    I thought that the regimental history was strange in that it is talking about the Carriers led by Sgt Sampson one minute and then suddenly its Sgt Usher, with no explanation as to why... I think there has been a 'cock-up' somewhere and it may be that the War Diaries were the main source for the regimental history and the former - as I mentioned in the foregoing paragraph - were not written up until weeks/months later.

    I'm intrigued by the Italy Star, which was awarded for service in Sicily. Do you have his service records? If so, could you post them?

    Post all that you feel inclined to do so, it all adds to the picture.

    You may also consider consulting the Red Cross about his time as a PoW - this is free. They have records of all PoWs.

    There are certainly unanswered questions remaining which you may wish to investigate.

    NB. I looked up Green Howards KIA and there was no Commissioned B Davis. Are you sure this is the name of the person who recommended your father in law for the MM?

    Best,

    Steve.
     
    Last edited: Jun 9, 2019
    Drew5233 likes this.
  5. Steve Wakefield

    Steve Wakefield Junior Member

    Steve, ta.
    I am purely working off the barely discernable name on back of the paper citation we have, where it says compiled by ....... at El Alamein 2nd July 1942 and what looks like B Davis.
    I thought briefly it was Bgd something, but there is clearly a dot above the last but one letter.
    Will post some more docs and forms/photos in due course.
    The same signature attests to John being MIA 28/6/1942 on the front.
    I will ask Andy if he will kindly do some copying for me as you suggest.

    We have no service records for John at all, but know he was in no fit state to serve in Italy, plus the fact the Green Howards museum showed me his "card", placing him at various dressing stations, hospital camps etc in Italy.

    I will do a few enquiries with the Red Cross too.
     
  6. Steve Wakefield

    Steve Wakefield Junior Member

    Firstly a massive apology for going AWOL, last couple of months but have needed to work my veritable off to stop the wolf actually eating the door.
    I now have a copy of the Green Howards book.
    Strangely there is no mention of 2/Lt Ushers death at Lentini through friendly fire. In fact no mention of casualties there on 14th July 1943. A non- reported officer death? I understand other ranks get no recognition, but a 2/Lt seems a peculiar ommission.
    This leads me to surmise that none of this is writ in stone.

    My disc drive has died so I need to get it fixed before I can post other details, or (Steve) send you the files I have neglected sending you. Apology.
     
  7. Steve Wakefield

    Steve Wakefield Junior Member

    The Eighth Army magazine photo's.
    Any body know where there may be originals, perhaps the rest of the roll that was shot may be there? Any clues as to photographer, dates, etc
     
  8. Steve Mac

    Steve Mac Very Senior Member

    No worries, just when you are ready Steve.
     
    Last edited: Jun 9, 2019
  9. DouglasAlan

    DouglasAlan Member

    Hello to contributors.
    I have a couple of photographs that may be of interest. They come from my late Dad's album, which I have only recently been able to review.
    Dad (C.S.M. Douglas Gray MM, D.o.B 1921) joined the 7 G.H. in 1939. His 2 brothers also served in the regiment. I knew Mr Sampson, he was a good friend of my Dad. ( He taught while I was at school in Bridlington, and still couldn't call him by any other name than 'Mr Sampson or 'Sir' - even when I used to go for a haircut). The remarks on the reverse of the photos refer to Capt Stobos and Mick Pinders battlefield graves, nr Lentini, being being within 200yds of 'Ush' aka Geoff Usher
    I would be pleased to share more news and photos.
    Best regards
    Douglas Alan Gray

    https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/77225270/Dad-War-013.jpg
    https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/77225270/Dad-War-013a.jpg
     
    Paul Reed and Owen like this.
  10. Steve Mac

    Steve Mac Very Senior Member

    Thanks for posting, Alan. Really good photographs, albeit seeing the three battlefield graves is sad.

    Steve Wakefield hasn't been on the forum for 15 months, but he would be very interested in the photographs and any other news you have. I will send him a PM (Personal message) and see if that gets him back?!

    In the meantime, post away... including any information you care to share about your father's war.

    Best,

    Steve.
     
  11. Owen

    Owen -- --- -.. MOD

    Excellent first post.
    Then & Now those graves thanks to this website.
    http://www.wikisicily.com/catania/indexall.php?name=No%20result
    Stobo
    http://www.wikisicily.com/catania/scheda_catania.php?id=1740&plot=I&fnd=D.%2010
    [​IMG]
    Pinder
    http://www.wikisicily.com/catania/scheda_catania.php?id=1436&plot=I&fnd=D.%2011
    [​IMG]


    Usher
    http://www.wikisicily.com/catania/scheda_catania.php?id=1836&plot=II&fnd=A.%2034
    [​IMG]

    forgot I already posted Usher's headstone photo on this thread back in 2012
     

    Attached Files:

  12. dbf

    dbf Moderatrix MOD

    http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/SearchUI/Details?uri=D7359581
    Screen shot 2014-06-29 at 22.17.31.png
    http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/SearchUI/Details?uri=D7359583
    Screen shot 2014-06-29 at 22.23.59.png


    http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/SearchUI/Details?uri=D7359584
    Screen shot 2014-06-29 at 22.24.09.png

    http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/SearchUI/Details?uri=D7359409

    Name Evans, Vincent
    Rank: Second Lieutenant
    Service No: 177632
    Regiment: 7 Battalion The Green Howards
    Theatre of Combat or Operation: Middle East (Egypt and Libya)
    Award: Military Cross
    Date of announcement in London Gazette: 24 September 1942

    Screen shot 2014-06-29 at 22.31.01.png
     
  13. Owen

    Owen -- --- -.. MOD

    I also forgot I posted the recommendation in 2012 as well.
     
  14. DouglasAlan

    DouglasAlan Member

    I see that the headstone for 'Mick' Pinder reads G 'W' Pinder. My dad's photo of the battlefield graves clearly reads G 'M' Pinder. Mistakes do happen?

    I have made a transcript of my Dad's D-Day diary, from D-2 to D+86 and then to Nijmegen. Perhaps I should post this link to a more general topic than Johnny Sampson? (......Sorry, Mr Sampson)
    rgds
     
  15. Steve Wakefield

    Steve Wakefield Junior Member

    Thanks Douglas,
    We've been away from here for a bit, what with work et al.
    If you are still in Brid, we are now up and down now and again for personal reasons, so perhaps a pint on the cards. We like the station buffet, good beer, easy parking and a good collection of railway stuff t boot. Would you know if there are any of Geoff Ushers family still in town as we wanted to contact them.
     
  16. DouglasAlan

    DouglasAlan Member

    Steve, Hi. Nice to hear from you.
    I live in France and have not visited my home town now for many years, since before my Mum died in 2009. (Dad died in 1991)
    My Godfather, Arthur Phillips, was the last of my Dad's comrades who I knew to be alive, lived in Fortyfoot.. He's in the centre of back row in this photo, with my Dad on his left.

    https://www.dropbox.com/s/j549bky2at5o9vl/Dad%20and%20comrades.jpg

    The others are written on the reverse as 'Chick, Jack, Alan and Tommy Farr'
    Chick's surname I know, but can't remember!!
    I'll be posting again when I can
    Best Regards
    Doug

    I have just got Chick's surname to mind - It was 'Woodhouse'
     

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