Sherman Crab T147955 “Avalon” Overloon. Regiment? Damage?

Discussion in 'Weapons, Technology & Equipment' started by Alex van de Wetering, Jun 23, 2020.

  1. I am trying to find out a bit more about the history and fate of Sherman Crab I “T147955”, “Avalon”, that is displayed at the Overloon war Museum.


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    22nd Dragoons or Westminster Dragoons?


    1; The museum states that the Crab was part of the 22nd Dragoons, while some internet sources say it was part of the Westminster Dragoons instead. The latter is based on an article in The Telegraph on William Hall, who is said to have commanded the very tank when it was put out of action in Broekhuizen (SW of Overloon). The museum however states that the tank was put out of action, close to Boxmeer (N of Overloon).
    William Hall
    Is there anyone that could point me in the right direction to hopefully confirm to which regiment this tank belonged? I tried to find the war diaries for both regiments for the October/november 1944 period, but no luck so far. Could the WD-census number help to determine which regiment used the tank?



    Target practice or battle damage?
    The other “mystery” around this tank is the number of penetrations on the right hand side. All sources say the tank was put out of action by a Panzerfaust and some of the remaining ammo exploded. The strange thing though is that the tank has around 20 penetrations on the right hand side, that all penetrated into the fighting compartment. I have measured the holes and they are all somewhere between 17-20mm in diameter (they didn't exit the tank on the left). Apart from the penetrations there is also evidence of hits with smaller calibre weapons that didn't penetrate the armour.

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    Some suggest the tank might have been used for target practice, but to me that doesn't seem very likely. I don't think the Germans would have had the chance, and time, to use the tank for target practice. Allied units using the tank for target practice sounds like food for a court martial to me, especially as a Crab was an important bit of kit and likely to have been recovered for repair or parts. The third possibility for the target practice theory is that it was used for target practice post war........Dutch army? To me that doesn't sound likely as the tank was already moved to the museum in 1946/1947 and the army was still busy rebuilding itself at the time. So, did some youth find a bunch of Panzerfausts and use the Crab as a target?


    Personally I think all damage might have been from the actual battle in which it was put out of action. But, what caused the damage to the tank? Multiple Panzerfausts? Maybe a 2cm KWK or FLAK gun at close range? A plane maybe.....German or even friendly fire?
    One of the hits went through the armour protecting the Flail drive gear on the right side of the hull and exited again slightly lower and more to the rear. This is a very shallow downward angle.......a plane flying very low?


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    I would love to hear what others think about the damage to the tank and what might have caused it. I would also be very interested if anyone knows more about the history of this tank......or even publications that I don't know of.



    Attached are some pictures of the actual tank in the museum.

    Alex
     
    marketc47 likes this.
  2. m kenny

    m kenny Senior Member

  3. m kenny

    m kenny Senior Member

  4. m kenny

    m kenny Senior Member

  5. smdarby

    smdarby Well-Known Member

    In "The Forgotten Battle: Overloon and the Maas Salient 1944-45" (Altes and Veld), there is a description of the fighting at Broekhuizen. On p. 181 it states as follows about the events of 30 November: "At first, everything seemed to be going as planned, although one flail tank became hopelessly stuck (currently on view in the Museum grounds in Overloon)."

    Regarding the damage, the Dutch Army used a lot of Shermans as target practice after the war. I believe the Sherman outside the Overloon Museum itself (US 7th Armoured Div Memorial) was retrieved from a firing range. I also spoke to a guy at the museum down in Nieuwdorp, South Beveland a couple of years ago and they had just acquired a shot-up Sherman.
     
    Chris C likes this.
  6. Chris C

    Chris C Canadian

    I have nothing to add but that I find this intriguing!
     
  7. von Poop

    von Poop Adaministrator Admin

    I appreciate just how difficult it is to assess what made a particular hole without documentary sources, but those small holes are very reminiscent of the mass Panzerfaust damage inflicted on the preserved 'Colander' Grant during testing.

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    Page on Panzerfaust tests:
    Allied Trials to Counteract Panzerfaust Attacks
    Damage holes may be of interest..
     
    Osborne2 and Chris C like this.
  8. The aspect and size of the holes is typical of those found on tanks in post-war firing ranges.
     
  9. Hi All,

    Thanks for all your responces.

    m kenny.
    The pictures in your first post all show the Sherman in question; Avalon. All but one of the pictures are taken shortly after the museum opened in May 1946. You can also spot Sherman "Cookie" in the background; a relic of the US 7th Armoured division. About 10 years ago, this Sherman was painted in Canadian markings and used as a Monument in Ortona, Italy. It recently returned to Overloon and is now awaiting re-paint into the original (US) Overloon markings.

    smdarby.
    Thanks for the quote from the book. Interesting to read that the tank became hopelessly struck, but there is no mention of it being hit and put out of action. I wouldn't be surprised if the museum tank was indeed the one that was in action in Broekhuizen. There is a number of pictures of "Avalon" in the early days in the museum, but so far I have't been able to spot any regimental markings. The museum staff couln't help me either; the people involved in the museum in the early days, have all passed away in the meantime and their archives couldn't give a definitive answer on the history of the tank.

    There is no question that many Shermans ended up on Dutch firing ranges, but "Avalon" was already in the museum at the opening in May 1946 and already had the damage at that time.

    Most Dutch Shermans didn't end up on the ranges before halfway the '50's when the ex-Canadian and British Shermans were replaced by "new" MDAP US Shermans. Some of the ex-Canadian ones ended up stripped of parts and converted into bunkers/pillboxes. The MDAP Shermans ended up on the ranges much later and sadly some were scrapped before they were able to be saved for preservation.
    The one in front of the museum is indeed an ex-range wreck MDAP Sherman....an M4A1E9

    I agree with von Poop and Michel Saberly that the damage does look similar to that seen on post-war range wrecks, and also the M3 Grant.

    von Poop
    Thanks, that's an interesting article....and the penetrations of the "small" panzerfaust do look similar.
     

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