Squadron leader john child

This officer was killed in an accident on 3rd September 1948 when his Spitfire TP240 crashed near Pelton Fell, Co Durham. This was a 612 Squadron aircraft and he was the Commanding Officer. However, the Squadron reformed in 1946 and I have been unable to find any information on his war service. Can anyone help, please?

 

Can't help with War Service, but back in '09 there was this enquiry (p21, 5th post down)
Air Force Lookups - if you need help Family History Local History
Hi Susan,
"The impossible we do immediately, miracles take a little longer".
My hunch about 1948 looks to have paid off.
How does the side of a hill located near Holmeside Old Hall and across the fields from Peartree Cottages, Holmeside sound?
03 Sept 1948; TP240; Spitfire FR14; No.612 Sqn
Squadron Leader John Child
The pilot, who was out of current flying practice and had no instrument flying rating, entered cu-nim cloud whilst flying in formation at 6500 feet. He lost control of the aircraft and it dived steeply into the ground,
Regards, Ross
A little Google search came up with Service Number...
Armed Forces Memorial - John Child, born 14th June 1918, service number 33435, stationed at RAF Dyce.
Perhaps Red 3 may be a relation?
RAF Red Arrows - The Red Arrows Team News

 

Thanks Kevin,

That could be a really good lead. I'll let you know if anything comes of it

 

Sorry Kevin,

That only lead to where and when he was killed and buried - but it was worth a try! I have found out all the dates of his promotions and the names of his parents, so I am taking it further but this has thrown up an even bigger mystery. He served in Aberdeen; he was killed in Durham and he was buried in Edinburgh which is the mystery because he was the son of a doctor and lived in Wolverhampton! You couldn't space these places more widely if you tried!

 

Sorry, not much help then.... and no connection to Red 3 (sigh)...

There is an immigration record in April 1922 for a 3 year old John Child, travelling on the Ormonde from Australia. Father shown as William Noel Child aged 59; mother Elspeth, housewife, aged 38; son James Faulkner, 7; sister Euphemia M, aged 6 and John. Address in England looks to be 14, South Street, Olin (Edin?), Fife, NB (North Britain - Scotland???). I can't read fathers occupation, best is Med Rxxxx?. If you have access to Ancestry look here: - Ancestry.co.uk
to see if you can better decipher....
Presumably from your forum name you have already tried local newspaper archives?
What about Flight magazine archives for the date of the crash?
Is there a Squadron Association or can RAF/ MoD provide any further info?
Have you tried posting in PPRuNe Military Aircrew section?

 

Kevin.....that's a bullseye!

Father's name is right, mother's name is right, John's age is exactly right, med does suggest doctor - which is right. Olin I have seen before in connection with Edinburgh and NB (North Britain) is an old designation for Scotland! And he did have a sister! (Will have to check on the bother) Just a little more research should flesh this information out but I am very optimistic.

Another, as yet unfounded, story says he was an Australian - so that could tie in too!

Thanks again, I'll be sure to let you know what I find out.

 

Aw, shucks! Just trying to help and "Thanks" not necessary (but much appreciated!)
Hope these little pointers get you to the facts about his War Service, presumably he was promoted during WW2 and that you succeed in bringing this man's memory back to life.
I've found Flight magazine archives to be very productive previously, plus it's a treat to wallow in a time when the RAF seemed the best Service in the world.....

Just did a little check on similar Service Numbers (Thanks, Geoff's Search Engine) and found these....

Name: BARNWELL, JOHN SANDES. Rank: Pilot Officer (Pilot)
Regiment/Service: Royal Air Force. Unit Text: 29 Sqdn.
Age: 20. Date of Death: 19/06/1940. Service No: 33432
Additional information: Son of Frank Sowter Barnwell, and of Marjorie Barnwell, of Stoke Bishop, Bristol. Awarded the King's Medal, R.A.F. College, Cranwell, 1939. His brothers Flt. Lieut. Richard Antony Barnwell and Pilot Offr. David Usher Barnwell, D.F.C., also died on Service.
Grave/Memorial Reference: Row 2. Grave 31. Cemetery: Scopwick Church Burial Ground.

Name: BLAKE, JAMES HENRY BANNING. Rank: Wing Commander
Regiment/Service: Royal Air Force
Date of Death: 16/10/1945. Service No: 33433. Awards: M B E
Grave/Memorial Reference: IV. M. 10. Cemetery: NAPLES WAR CEMETERY

Name: GORDON-DEAN, PETER LEE. Rank: Flying Officer (Pilot)
Regiment/Service: Royal Air Force. Unit Text: 151 Sqdn.
Age: 21. Date of Death: 04/03/1941. Service No: 33436
Additional information: Son of Air Commodore H. Gordon-Dean, A.F.C., and Helen Gordon-Dean, of Winslow.
Cemetery: WINSLOW (ST. LAWRENCE) CHURCHYARD.

Name: HARDING, GEOFFREY FAWCONER. Rank: Pilot Officer (Pilot)
Regiment/Service: Royal Air Force. Unit Text: 18 Sqdn.
Age: 21. Date of Death: 11/05/1940. Service No: 33438
Additional information: Son of Hubert Fawconer Harding and Eleanor Harding, of Branksome Park, Bournemouth, Hampshire.
Grave/Memorial Reference: 20. D. 5. Cemetery: REICHSWALD FOREST WAR CEMETERY

Barnswell was awarded the Kings Medal at Cranwell in 1939, and he and Harding had been killed by mid 1940, so it would seem that John Child may have had a very similar route.... Cranwell and being commissioned as an Officer (regular RAF, not RAFVR) in 1939/40 then progressing through the ranks....
Hope that speeds your search!

 

Thanks for that Kevin,

Barnwell, Gordon-Dean and Harding were all in the same intake as John Child at Cranwell - I have the full list of successful candidates of that intake.

I am still trying, but I have not been able to track the family you found for me either in Fife or Edinburgh. The husband was 59 and the wife was 38 and she later remarried. I have tracked her to Shackerley Hall, Albrighton but I have still not discovered whether this was before or after she remarried. To complicate things, this village straddled the Staffordshire/Shropshire border and it is not clear which it is in today. Either way, it is very close to Wolverhampton. The search goes on!

 

Found National Probate record for William Noel Child, of 9, Powderham Road, Newton Abbot, Devonshire. Died 6th May 1927. Probate: London 29 June to Elspeth Child, widow, and John Faulkner Child, solicitor. Effects: £30,863 18s.
So, if Elspeth remarried it would be after 1927.
Ah ha! Elspeth Child Marriage Registration to William J Y Guilfoyle in Chelsea 3rd Qtr 1933.
Frustratingly, no nearer S/L Child info though!
Air Commodore William James YULE (first husband NOEL - very Christmassy!) Guilfoyle OBE MC; died in Melbourne, Australia on 24th April 1948 as a result of an air accident. Beloved husband of ElsBeth Guilfoyle, of Shackerley Hall, Albrighton, near Wolverhampton. Aged 57.
Maybe another air crash for you to investigate.
EDIT: Ooops! Don't think so, unless someone's research is very faulty.... The Cemetery details have:-
Air Commodore William James Yule GUILFOYLE M.C. Brighton General (North Road, Caulfield South, Melbourne, Victoria). Son of the renowned landscape gardener William R. GUILFOYLE (Brighton Cemetery). Guilfoyle had a varied military career in WWI enlisting with the 4th Light Horse Regiment in August 1914; six months later he joined the Royal Field Artillery. In July 1915 he gained a commission with the British Royal Flying Corps, and was later attached to the Australian Flying Corps (Egypt) in July 1916 taking part in Battles of Romani and Gaza. Described as an "ideal airman for pluck, daring and splendid nerve" he was awarded the Military Cross on 3 March 1917 and the following year flew in the Battle of Piave (Italy). In WWII, Guilfoyle served in various posts with the RAF rising to the position of Commandant Air Training Corps (Nth-West command) from 1942 to 1946. Mentioned in Despatches 6 times, he died on 24 April 1948 as a result of an explosion whilst camping.
Confirmed by newspaper report (!)
EXPLOSION AT CAMP; FLIER DIESMelbourne. — Air Commodore William James Guilfoyle, 50, died in hospital today from severe burns he suffered at Belgrave on Thursday when a spirit stove exploded while he and his wife were camping. He left Australia in 1914 as a member of the 4th Light Horse, on the outbreak of World War One. He was Commanding Officer of 30 Group R.A.F, defending London. In 1942 he was appointed commandant of the Air Training Corps in the English North- West Command, and held that post until 1946, when Air Command sponsored his visit here as representative of the British Air League. He was awarded the O.B.E. during the war.
So, Elspeth lost first her second husband in April and then her son in September 1948. What a tragic year, after both had come through the War... Another little snippet is that Guilfoyle was born in Edinburgh in 1890, but obviously seems to have been in Australia at the time of WW1...
Fascinating sidetrack about the Barnswell family, father was Chief Engineer and designer for Bristol, designed the Blenheim which his son died in....

 

Kevin - brilliant stuff!

I thought I would help yesterday by trawling through the various websites that normally provide me with info in similar cases and I managed to find bugger-all.

I have tried searching FlightGlobal for details on the Spitfire crash in 1948 and no matter what combination of search terms I use I can't find any mention.

Checking Aussie newspapers of the day confirmed that Doctor Child and his family boarded the Ormonde in February 1922, but no clues as to when or how they spent time in Australia.

If John was born in Australia then I can't find any birth notice etc. But the record mentioned yesterday in an earlier post of Kevin's used the term "an immigration record". Or is "an immigration record" any arrival from overseas??

Surely if they were just returning to the UK after a holiday or whatever in Australia then they wouldn't need an immigration record???


Anyhoo, I am attaching my meagre findings - including an article that casts doubt over who was in the tent with the Air Commodore.....

 

Kevin and Dave,

Thank you both for your efforts. Dr Child was an Australian citizen although there is an isolated report that he may have been born in Scotland and emigrated as a child (no pun intended!)

After spending all day researching, I have found very little about him except that his estate of just under £31,000 would be worth well over £900,000 at today's value - so he was pretty well off.

As for Air Commodore Guilfoyle, his obituaries (on websites and newspapers) barely mention his family. One cynical thought that crosses my mind is that S/L Child may have gained rapid promotion (and a protected job) under his patronage. I'll have to wait and see what response I get from the RAF/MOD before I make up my mind on that one.

I did see a photograph of the A/C inspecting barrage balloons on the Thames. He was a chubby man with a moustache - otherwise unremarkable.

I'll keep on posting anything I find. Hopefully that will include a local press report but I keep having to put off trips to the newspaper office in Darlington (40 miles away) and the County archives in Durham because of my unsocial working hours. The Police Occurrence book is "missing" for that date but the County Archivist is trying to locate it for me.

I will try to keep you informed.

 

Operation Dagger - Southland vs Northland

It would appear that the SQNLDR died on his way to take part in the air war -

 

DaveB: Thanks for joining in, I thought it was getting into a two man show!!
Yes, I also noted the presence of at least one other in the camping party, and the doubt over whether Mrs Guilfoyle was there.

The point you have taken is that there seems to be a high level of "coincidences" in the movements of the two families, Edinburgh, Australia, RAF (OK, maybe not the Yule and Noel!) but whether there is any actual relationship I haven't found.

What no one seems able to penetrate is just what John Child did or where he was during WW2. I don't know if patronage (or nepotism) played any part in his promotion, I'm of the opinion it was down to ability.

Just a good opportunity to get the mental muscles flexing to avoid post Christmas flab!
I hope you get to the end of the trail!

 

Edinburgh is the wrong side of the Firth of Forth for Fife.

The location is Elie, Fife which is just to the west along the coast from Anstruther towards Lundin Links.

elie fife - Google Maps

South Street still exists.

His headstone is marked "In loving memory of a very dear son and brother" so I would look for a close relative/sibling who was resident close to Corstorphine Hill and the gravesite in 1948.

The marriage of William Noel Child Medical Practitioner of 10 Holland Villas Road, Kensington, London, and Elspeth of 51 Fountainhall Road, Edinburgh happened on 26th July 1913. Right area generally for Corstorphine but both her parents are listed as deceased. The Corstorphine Hill Cemetery is very close to the technical/domestic site for RAF Turnhouse so this location may have also been choice for the colour party.

Regards
Ross

 

Thank you all for your replies,

DaveB - Your press cuttings explain what he was doing so far from his base at RAF Dyce when he was killed

Kevin - Like you, I would prefer to believe that his position was earned and that he was on active service during the war

Ross - Fife was mentioned in all of his family immigration paperwork but did not seem to gel with his having been buried at Corstophine Hill. I can tell you that your information makes more sense than my earlier thoughts and also that he was buried from RAF Turnhouse.

Whilst I wait for a response from the RAF/MOD, can anyone suggest how I can find out where he spent his war? 612 Squadron appears to have been a bomber squadron and was disbanded in 1945 before being re-formed as a fighter squadron.

 

I have just come upon this site. If it is of any interest to anyone my name is John Child, nephew of Squadron Leader John Child. I was named after him when I was born in 1949. My father was John's brother James Faulkner. My grandfather William Noel Child was a medical doctor from the south of England and he married Elspeth Kininmonth. Her father had emigrated from Fife in the 1850s and Elspeth was born on the sheep station he owned in Victoria. She later sailed to England where she met and married my grandfather. He was seriously injured in a train crash when returning from the front in WW1. To help his recovery the family went to Australia in 1921 for a year or so. Noel died in 1927 at age 44. Elspeth remarried a Bill Guilfoyle a few years later. After WW2, widowed again, she moved to a house in Elie until she died in 1954. I scattered half my father's ashes on John's grave in Corstorphine cemetery, where his mother's ashes also were placed. I hopethat clears up some of the confusion!

 

Just to add - I am using my wife's tablet hence the name Annemarie! My uncle was very active in the war. I believe he flew the Halifax. I never understood why he was in a Spitfire in 1948. He was hoping to set up a market gardening business with his mother.

 

I have sent a private message to the thread starter

Interesting headstone shape not the usual post war.Possibly because it is included in the CWGC plot

John Child ( - 1948) - Find A Grave Photos

 

It’s not a CWGC headstone, it’s too late a death to be commemorated by CWGC.

 

Hello John, It is of great interest! Your uncle died whilst on active duty. His plane came down in a village which is in the middle of nowhere - realistically speaking - but was in the middle of a fighter area during WW2. In the post-war (cold war) years it was on a sort of cross roads for air traffic and that is probably why he came down where he did. This background information is of great interest.