Thanks for all the looking up, TD. We've looked again at my end ( two pairs of glasses ) and come up with more variations. "Ball" or "Hall" has an "all" as a surname ending but very hard to decipher the beginning of the surname and separate from the initials. " Nathan J---ez" could be Nat Ramllez: the Nat crashes into the surname. The R could be a K. G.J. Caulsee is fairly clear as that name. B. Youngleer also fairly clear. J. M. Ockley could be J.M. Ochley A.L. Horte could be A.W. Forte E.A. Chapman could be E.D. or C.D. There's a smudge. A.J. Fabricius. It is a stylish F: a long line with a crossing stroke. If that was a mistake then it would be Labricius, but I doubt it.
Youngleson does fit. "Breakfast" and "Olla" may well be a description of the time and the place and possibly written in the same hand as A.J.Fabricius.
Re Ball/Hall etc - some options D H Blackall Muhlberg (Elbe), Germany 53274 2184 4B A Marshall Muhlberg (Elbe), Germany 6517 4B A S Povall Muhlberg (Elbe), Germany 116952 223918 4B J V Rall Muhlberg (Elbe), Germany S.A.P.195924 222876 4B TD
J V Rall looks like it could fit. There is a good beginning stroke for the J but the V gets lost. The R could have an oval in the middle: appropriate for rugby. The next signature below is Nat something, Kanllez ? Of the letters a K followed by A looks possible. Then something indistinct and a double L. A bloated W is possible. Ending ey, ez. G J Caulsee has a blot in the middle so the L could be a T with a low cross stroke: Cautsee ? Rather remote possibility. Good for you about Fabricus. Sorry I added an "i". John
John Perhaps - G J Coetsee Muhlberg (Elbe), Germany 198248 224944 4B DianeE - correct So now we are left with: Nathan ????llez? A L Horte ?? (see post below - Foster) E A Chapman (I think E S Chapman) Olla L G K L TD edited to add: Bit in red above
Oehley does work, hard to pronounce. I like Foster ( no smudges ). Bit stylish at the end. Coetsee sounds South African: smudge took away the cross stroke for the T. The initial S in Chapman, smudged. It is like the lower case S I did when learning to write, with an end flourish. Chapman could not be anything else. "Olla" is in inverted commas, as is "Breakfast", so could well not be a POW, and the initials need a new photo or close up. Which leaves Nathan: usually get a Jones after that. I did wonder if the two loops looking like a butterfly sucking nectar could be a K and the surname was Key/Kez or could be a W for Wey/Wez.
Sorry guys my error here, just found that I forgot sheet 2 Odise - ?? no luck Ackerman - done OK with that A V Katzeff - have found a D Katzeff "Breakfast" - no idea E H Cowling - have found an E W H Cowling - looks OK ....bertson - only SA POW I can find in camp 4B is N H Robertson - so looks OK TD edited to add: S Cochrane - could be A A Cochrane or G D Cochrane bot SA POW's in 4B
It looks like you're nearly there, TD. You've done a great deal of the jigsaw. Odise could be Oclise, his first name begins with a Q for certain. D for Dave Katzeff with a funny "D": the ink wasn't flowing from the Platignum pen when he signed it ( perhaps an Osmiroid, surely not a Parker ? ) Cowling good. I think A Cochrane. Robertson does seem to be the full name, the beginning off the photo. It is down to Nathan and Quentin. Diane will wake up with the sun tomorrow and look them up in the Cape Town phone book.
Godd morning, the sun is shining and the phone book has come up trumps. Hope you agree J Q Ochse Maj. 188446 249174 OS4B Nathan or Nat being more troublesome.Will keep on trying Diane
Good Morning Diane from grey skies and drizzle in Essex. Overcast and raining hard earlier, about 6 degrees outside. Ochse obvious really, aren't they always when you have outside help ? Signature has got a long middle H. Congratulations. Nat Ramiley ? Don't think he's a Matt. John
Just Googled the name and found J K (Chum) Ochise who was a Springbok rugby player in the early 50"s. He was born in 1925 and I think its a good bet that he was a relative.
There are very few SA newspaper archives on line. However I found that, according to the Eastern Province Herald dtd 1/8/45, the following POW"s were on their way home from "the north" to Port Elizabeth. Amongst the names were C F Heydenreich, A R Hinds, J M Oehley, N H Robertson and I J Zietsman
The Australian digital newspaper online resource called "Trove" has a few photographs of Australian POW rugby teams. Some photographs taken by guards bribed to take them, according to the reports. This is one newspaper report of a match at a different camp involving a South African team taken from a letter by a POW received in Australia in December 1944: The Murrumbidgee Irrigator ( Leeton, NSW ) Tue 19 Dec 1944 PLAY HARD FOOTBALL, IN P.O.W. CAMP ' In a letter just to hand, dated Oc tober 14, -Sgt. Alf Palmer describes a Rugby football match played in' Sta: lag 357, Germany, between New Zea land and South Atrica teams, drawn from prisoners of war in that camp. The writer added that they ' were two heavy packs of forwards. First aid had to be rendered seven times, but for all that, the game was quite clean and an excellent exhibition of Rugby. South Africa won 5 to 3.
From the names on the back of the photo in post 1 Left column (top to bottom) Name: B S Van Der Merwe Rank: Cpl. Army Number: 195916 POW Number: 274771 Name: J V Rall Rank: Sgt. Army Number: S.A.P.195924 POW Number: 222876 Name: N E Shamley Rank: Sgt. Army Number: 186832 POW Number: 274754 Name: G J Coetsee Rank: Cpl. Army Number: 198248 POW Number: 224944 Name: H B Youngleson Rank: Pte Army Number: 32172 POW Number: 263188 Name: A R Hinds Rank: Cpl. Army Number: 11528 POW Number: 262627 Name: M L Moore Rank: Gunner Army Number: 114779 POW Number: 225098 Name: C A Van Der Westhuizen Rank: Pte Army Number: 107715 POW Number: 274208 Name: J McG Oehley Rank: Sgt. Army Number: 12162 POW Number: 22416 Name: N Hinds Rank: Cpl. Army Number: 221464 POW Number: 224076 Name: I J Zietsman Rank: Pte Army Number: 196164 POW Number: 274782 L.G.K.L - Unfound/unknown TD