Strolling around the local cemetery.

2nd Pilot in a Hampden was in reality the navigator as due to the narrowness of the fuselage it was very difficult to take over from the pilot in flight and near impossible if he was wounded. Indeed some aircrew descriptions actually use the phrase 2ndPilot/Navigator - see for example Dereck French, Bomber boy - My life as a bomber pilot. Anthony Cooper, RAAF Bombers over Germany 1941 - 42

 

It's interesting that his family used the phrase "...'Ere Manhood Dawned" regarding the death of a 21 year old, but his mother, born 1899 or 1900 had given birth to him at 19 or 20 years of age. She presumably considered herself an adult ?

I think it's going a little far to put the blame for this misadventure on Uncle Adolf...Reckless flying by the RAF...One of their greatest heroes of course, Douglas Bader incapacitated himself not defending his country but whilst playing silly blighters in someone else's aeroplane.

 

In Wellingtons the term Co pilot was used but his seat was alongside the pilot something impossible in the Hampden

 

Exercise is good for you Adam.

Could the 2nd pilot / co-pilot distinction have something to do with whether the aircraft had dual control?

 

No the Wellington didn't have dual control (apart from some training machines).

 

There was no designated 2nd pilot in a Hampden. The designated role was an Observer who had the responsibly of navigation from a tandem seat behind the pilot .For his bombing duties his station was in the nose of the aircraft for which he had to leave the Observer's station behind the pilot and get below at the bomb sight in the nose.

The Observer had a third role and that was as a emergency pilot.In the event of an emergency, the Observer had to pull the pilot back through the tandem seat arrangement and then enter the pilot's seat from behind....a very difficult manoeuvre

When the Hampden entered service with Bomber Command,there was no such designation as Navigator,that change came much later with the advent of the 4 engined heavies where the Observer role was spilt into Navigator and Bomber Aimer,later changed to Air Bomber .

Many Observers retained their Observer brevet,it indicating that they had put some time in.

A look at Sgt Newbold;s designation from the CWGC data base indicates that he was a Sgt Pilot.The operation was a training cross country run with a take off time at 2020 from Scampton ,the crash occurring at 0040 according to Bill Chorley records.The normal crew would have been Pilot,Observer,Wireless Operator/Gunner and Gunner.However this training sortie appears to have been crewed with Pilot P/O E R Davis,Sgt Pilot G A Newbold in the Observer's seat and I would think Sgt W Wells as Wireless Operator/Gunner....a second Gunner was not carried.

It looks as if Sgt Pilot G A Newbold was being given training in night flying.

 

Pre and early war the operational conversion was done on unit and Dual control kits were supplied to squadrons to modify their aircraft for the task.

As war progressed the conversion was done at OTU unit and dual control trainer variant was really only post war.

The second pilot term related to an aircrew member who was just that - a qualified pilot onboard.

Until Oct 1937 there was no specific aircrew designation for Navigator just another pilot who was doing this duty. From Oct 1937 the aircrew category of Air Observer was created who was a full time professional trained to assist the pilot in Navigation and additionally trained in bombing and gunnery.

So either an error of IBCC to describe his category as 2nd Pilot rather than Air Observer or a very correct distinction of early war category - depends if he had the award of flying wings or flying A-hole!

Ross

 

Just had a look at the Form 1180 - Initially he was recorded as pilot in command then subsequently by Court of Inquiry it was amended to Davis so IBCC 2nd pilot designation correct.

 

Looking at the RAF Museum’s transcript of an extract from Guy Gibson’s logbook, 1st and 2nd pilot were the terms used officially (at least in 1943).

Logically you can only be a ‘co-pilot’ if you have dual control but perhaps this was informally used for the 2nd pilot as in this example.

 

There was never a designated 2nd pilot on Lancaster or any other heavies in Bomber Command.The "pilot's assistant" as he was called was initially the role of the bomb aimer but when the role of the Flight Engineer was recognised as aircrew and a brevet awarded, "FE",the Flight Engineer assumed this role.

The problem with having designated 2nd pilots was experienced with the losses of the Wellington which was crewed with a 2nd Pilot.It was thought that the loss of two pilots was unsustainable given the time required for a bomber pilot to graduate from training into a front line squadron.When the 4 engined heavies came into service,the policy was changed and the Flight Engineer ultimately became the emergency pilot as the "pilot's assistant"....the Flight Engineers training course being much shorter and less time training in the air.

However Coastal Command retained the 2nd pilot as did Ferry Command to accommodate long flight endurance when pilots would Take it in turns to take charge of the aircraft.

Regarding dual controls,that was an option from the likes of AVRO for Lancasters but was never taken up in wartime since the controls would restrict access and egress movement from the cockpit to the bomb aimer's /front gunner's station and vice versa.

Lancaster PA 474 of the display BBMF has dual controls and two pilots normally crew it with the Co Pilot taking the role of the Flight Engineer...the dual feature added since it became part of the BBMF.

Regarding Guy Gibson's log book and the extract from it.The log book was the RAF standard record for use across all RAF Commands of an individual airmen's flying record,his training,his passage through flying school,OTU,HCU (Bomber Command, but Gibson only attended OTU as the HCU were yet to be established) and for those passed through the Lancaster Finishing Schools when they were established,hours flying types of aircraft with aircraft identified by it's squadron Call Sign.The total flying hours would be recorded on a monthly basis, countersigned by the Squadron or Unit C.O.Also Included in the individual's log would be details of operations over enemy territory which would also be the basis for determining an individual's tour in a particular RAF Command.

A look at Gibson's log from April 1943 to the completion of the Chastise operation on 17 May 1943 shows that he flew 1924 hours 20 minutes including three stages in an Oxford (2) and a Vega on 8 May 1943...the Oxford would be a squadron "runabout".Gibson is named as Pilot or 1st Pilot Pupil in the stage to Hendon. Recorded as the 2nd Pilot,Pupil, or Passenger to Manston in a Vega, then recorded as being the Pilot or 1st Pilot for the trip back to Scampton from Manston.

An interesting record is shown on 14 May 1943 and for some unknown reason Gibson is piloting "P" not "G" which he received as his personal Lancaster on 30 April 1943.The occasion was the full dress rehearsal for Chastise on Uppingham Lake and Colchester Reservoir....declared to be completely successful.An entry in his log,in addition to his normal crew and under 2nd Pilot,Pupil,Passenger is G/C Whitworth DSO DFC.Whitworth was the Station Commander at Scampton and would have been there to witness the final rehearsal.Not being a qualified Lancaster pilot his entry in Gibson's log would be as Passenger.


At the start of of his flying training at Yatesbury in November 1936,Gibson would have been shown as a pupil in his instructor's log book when flying under instruction and this would also be recorded in Gibson's log book,he being the pupil.As training progressed,solo flying time would be entered in his log.