Sunderland / Flyingboat photos.

Discussion in 'The War In The Air' started by James S, Mar 8, 2009.

  1. Gerard

    Gerard Seelow/Prora

  2. James S

    James S Very Senior Member

    Gott
    From what you are saying it seems as if it was a dangerous place to be flying around. I've visited the area around Mt Brandon, have you been down? Its fairly rugged as places go

    Was down there once about ten years ago , it is as you say a rugged place , unfortunately I was unable to walk up to the loaction where the 201 aircraft crashed - that the peak claimed several aircraft speaks for itself - a potentially dangerous place.
     
  3. Gerard

    Gerard Seelow/Prora

  4. James S

    James S Very Senior Member

    W.P.R.G.I. - a much respected body .
    Two men who work on their own , Tony Kearns and Martin Gleeson are two of the best read and respected researchers into Ireland's part in WW2 and aircraft of both sides which came down in "The South".
    I used to know Martin quite well but have lost touch with him , a solid individual , who certainly knows his subject very well.

    The crew of the Sunderland being buried in Irvinestown. ( Post 7)
    http://www.ww2talk.com/forum/war-air/15763-some-war-time-views-castle-archdale.html
     
    Smudger Jnr likes this.
  5. cash_13

    cash_13 Senior Member

    Nice story about the Short Sunderland ML824 which is one of the main attractions at Hendon Air Museum..
    in Aeroplane monthly I believe this month or one of them magazines......good picture's and a good right up....

    Lee F
     
  6. James S

    James S Very Senior Member

    These are "my boys" - Cook's crew from 423 , Don Macfie , Terry Reeves , Joe Kilgour.
    This account was penned by Joe Richie their navigator , it reads very well.

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  7. spidge

    spidge RAAF RESEARCHER Patron

    Photos: Short S-25V Sandringham 4 Aircraft Pictures | Airliners.net=

    Here's a link to some photos of the Short SV-25 Sandringham. Great shots too.

    Great photo Gott.

    Sir Reginald Ansett who started Ansett Airlines, one of the two major airlines in Australia up to the 90's started out by charging people to take them by bus to Melbourne from Hamilton (200 miles) in Victoria.

    From an acorn..............................

    They show the seas around Lord Howe Island 600kms off the coast of New South Wales.

    Read it and weep!

    Lord Howe Island - Tourism, Accommodation and Travel Information

    Lord Howe Island was discovered on 17 February 1788 by HMS Supply, commanded by Lieutenant Henry Lidgbird Ball, RN, who was on his way from Botany Bay to Norfolk Island with convicts to start a penal settlement there. On his return journey on 13 March 1788 he sent a party ashore on the island. It was uninhabited, and it seems that it had not been known to any of the Polynesian peoples of the South Pacific. Mount Lidgbird on the island and the nearby Ball's Pyramid are named after Ball. The island itself was named after Richard Howe, 1st Earl Howe who was First Lord of the Admiralty.
    Many government ships sailing between New South Wales and Norfolk Island stopped at the island, as did some whaling and trading vessels. Some ships left goats and pigs on the island for food for future visitors but a permanent settlement wasn't established until 1834 at an area known today as Old Settlement.
    Until 1974 there was no airstrip and the only way to reach it by air was in a flying boat from Rose Bay in Sydney that landed on the lagoon surrounded by the coral reef.
     
  8. James S

    James S Very Senior Member

    Not to bump this up to remind myself , to look out details of a little know landing error.

    In mid 43 a 423 ( almost sure it was them) aircraft landing on Lough Erne reported to control that no boat had come out to take the crew off .
    "Where are you down asked control ?"
    "Where you landed me , where do you think ? "
    "Well you are not on the flare path that's for sure"

    They had landed on Lough Melvin ........to the SW of the Lough , a water which was unmarked and which straddled the border.

    ASAP Squadron Leader Thompson was out to see that they got off.
    I found this out from a gent called Les Trimmer who flew with 423.

    Nothing of this is recorded in the records , not a word - a few years ago in conversation with local historian Joe O'Loughlin , Joe asked me if I knew anything about a landing by a Sunderland on Lough Melvin - I told him what I knew - he had been given similar info by some local people who saw her land and take off.
    The hop back to Archdale would only have been afew minuted enough time to climb to serval hundred feeta dn make a right turn before coming down.
    Several years ago a "Dan Air" flight landed at Langford Lodge close to Aldergorve - it is that proximity we are talking about , an aircraft down low seeing the water would have put down.
     
  9. James S

    James S Very Senior Member

    I hope John (U311) won't mind me posting this photo up , he sent it to me this evening - it is apretty great photo as far as I am concerned.
    She has started the outer engines to get going as the wake shows , the turret is still retracted and the crew can be seen in the open nose section.
    The ASV on the wing of the adjacent aircraft can be seen can the aerial on the hull above the cockpit.
    She looks like a veteran aircraft , this is a really atmospheric photo, thanks John this one is a real gem. :):):)


    When you look at the exhaust system and the one of four engine s running next to your ear is it any cwonder that the old hands talk of "Sunderland ear" or "Lancaster ear" - damaged hearing from the sound of the engines.
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  10. Anytime James!

    Thanks for posting the photos!

    Now that you have mentioned it, my grandfather was a little short of hearing as he got older..wonder if this is the "Sunderland" ear you mention?
     
  11. The back of the Sunderland photo says "Poppa's Flying Boat At Loch Erne Ireland 1943/44", I guess that particular day he was flying that Sunderland, probably making him one of the crew which can be seen.
     
  12. James S

    James S Very Senior Member

    It probably didn't help , quite a few veteran flyers ended up with damaged or failing hearing due to engine noise, "Lancaster ear", Catalina Ear" , "Sunderland Ear" - all fro having piston engines roaring in the ear for much of their service life.

    He probably was on board , in the left hand seat as she was underway.
    From what some told me they really had to fight theiur case to get any recognition of the damage done to their hearing.
     
  13. Wimpy

    Wimpy Member

    Some new piccies ....................... if they've been posted before sorry

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    best till last

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    Wimpy
     
  14. James S

    James S Very Senior Member

    Found these in hiding this evening , I don't know where they camae from so would apologise for the lack of a source , all taken at Castle Archdale/ Killadeas.

    The two groups of airmen , as far as I am aware these men are from 202 Squadron , gathered around an engine and lined up on the tailplane of a Catalina.

    The man balancing on the mooring bouy , one slip and its all over !

    The two Sunderlands both at Archdale , the sepia colured photo is a 201 aircraft.
    The U-Boats - Lisahally taken by aircrew in May 45.
     

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  15. Smudger Jnr

    Smudger Jnr Our Man in Berlin

    James,
    It really brings home to you just how large the engines were when 4 men sit on the cowlings!

    It may have been a very large seaplane, but it is a beautiful plane in my eyes and served the crews well.

    Regards
    Tom
     
  16. James S

    James S Very Senior Member

    They were amazing craft which WW2 left behind - when the war ended they really had no place in aviation or at best an extremely limited one.
    Today , looking across the Lough it is not hard to imagine a Sunderland gathering speed to get up "on the step" , making the transition between ship and aircraft ....you can almost hear them as a back ground noise , very faintly as if struggling to break through from the past to the present.

    Found this on a search.

    Shuck Raider's Flying Boat Ride Out.... Kesh - ::. UKGSer.com .::

    Some good photos of Archdale today.
     
  17. Gerard

    Gerard Seelow/Prora

    They were amazing craft which WW2 left behind - when the war ended they really had no place in aviation or at best an extremely limited one.
    Today , looking across the Lough it is not hard to imagine a sunderland gathering speed to get up "on the step" , making the transition between ship and aircraft ....you can almost hear them as a back ground noise , very faintly as if struggling to break through from the past to the present.
    You've just described perfectly how I felt when I visited the museum at Foynes in Co. Limerick. Its very easy to imagine the Clipper boats struggling to take to the air as you look across the bay there. A very nicely put post James!! B)
     
  18. James S

    James S Very Senior Member

    Four photos of the a wing section of AM265 which crashed on 21st March 41 just South of Bundoran near Kinnlough.

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    ( Gent holding the wing is Seamus Gormley from Enniskillen.)

    This was the operational debut of the Catalina , the two crews having flown over from Stranraer the previous afternoon.
    One returned early due to engine trouble and this one crashed - most likely lost trying to find its bearings.

    The fire was immediate and all consuming , all on board were instantly killed, all but one are buried in Irvinestown , P/O. Seward was returned to his family for burial.

    The yellow upper surface and the American Navy star have worn through betraying her previous owners.

    The news of the crash was telephoned to Castle Archdale by the irish Army who were called along with the police to the crash site , later that same day RAF officers from Archdale were permitted to inspect the remains and to see the pitiful remains of the men who were killed.

    John Iverach on "L" knew the crew had trained with Peers Davidson and as a Sgt. had had a difference with Seward when he attempted to "pull rank on him" and "tell him how to do his job" , something the well trained and experienced Iverach disliked intensely.

    In an instant they were gone.....

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    One from the same era, moored at Castle Archdale.

    Joe O’Loughlin » Blog Archive » Catalinas at Killadeas

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    The graves here on the lower left are theirs, one member of the crew is buried in the nearby Catholic cemetery.

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    Looking back towards the Church they are buried on the lower right.
    In the next 4 years almost 300 airmen more would follow them to an early grave.

    Iverach in Enniskillen with his crewmates heard about the crash from the taxi driver who was taking them back to base - and when they got there on going to the flying control room the door was closed to them as the "brass" seemed to be in a bit of a "flap", the news had spread of the crash probably via the civilian operators who put the call through from the South.

    This is how he remembered the crash in his diary.

    Thursday March 20 th 1941.

    "Spent the day as usual reading - this time a mystery novel and filing snapshots and negatives.
    Tonight I had to go down to the pier to act as welcoming committee of one and guide ( at F/lt. Jack Holmes request) for the crews of the two kites from Stranraer - two PBY's from 240 Squadron.
    The whole squadron is moving over here in a day or two and these two kites are the first two to come and operate from here, starting their maiden operational flights tomorrow morning - to comb the Atlantic for 16 hours out as faras 23 or 24 West , for some German cruisers alleged to be raiding in that vicinity.
    Dimi Havlicek was on one and he gave me his version of the experience he had on "99" when forced down on the sea near the Mull of Kintyre. Good to see him again as it also was to see Ted Lilly, Pete Mathews and the rest.
    the other kite had none other than Peers davidson as observer , who was a sight for sore eyes. P/O Seward was with them - the bloke who flew for a few trips on "95". I rode up in the lorry with Peers and Seward with the rest of thecrew in the back - Dixie Dunbar, hary Newbury , Chalky and Oldfield.
    After showing them all to their quarters in what used to be the hay-loft ( tch,tch!) - and rustling up some grub for them , we all went up to the Sergeants Mess and we spent quite a nice evening talking about the new boats - over a few ales.
    Finished my book and so to bed at 1.00a.m. ."

    1st PBY crashed today - 8 killed.

    March 21st Friday.
    "This was a day of tragedy , although it wasn't until midnight that I learned the worst. Knowing of nothing out of the ordinary happening, I had gone to Enniskillen at 4.30 pm with Strap , davies and Dredge where we had a gay time , playing Russian Bagatelle at the Imperial Hotel , Ping Pong at the YMCA and seeing "Lucky partners" at the Town hall Cinema. It was not till we got into the taxi for home, that we had the first confirmation of rumours of a mishap - when the taxi driver Aiken (* fromirvinestown) said he had herad of a flying boat crashing in the Free State. We wouldn't have believed it but for a few queer things which had occurred - that could be explained by the fact that the rumour was true.
    F/lt Holmes had stopped us as we were leaving the castle and asked us was on the crew of "A" - and he seemed in a stew over something; earlier when I heard went to the ops room to see if we were released for the day. I was not allowed in - an unsual thing - and Goup Cptain Btes was busy on the phones , surrounded by officers also unusual for he always phoned from his own office.
    these significant occurances meant nothing at the time but now they did- and as soon as we got to the castle I rushed to the operations room and one look at the face of the controller told me the truth. he gave me what details he could , namely that A , the second one to take off this morning had crashed into a peak in the Free State and that the whole crew of eight were killed - burnt beyond recognition - F/lt. Whitworth , P/O Seward ( who was on out kite for couple of weeks) , Peers davidson ; Sgts. harry Newbury , Dixie Bumbar, chalk , Oldfield.
    It seems that I was trying to climb, after jettisoning aqll depth charges and bombs, with one motor to get back to base whenthey crashed into this particular height of land which was 2100 feet high.
    They're trying to get the bodies out tomight if possible.
    This was the making of history for the PBY's that left here this morning were the first operational flight for an American flying boat in the RAF - the first flights for the new kites of which 240 Squadron was as proud and optimistic.
    We all sat gloomily thinking how last night we were all so cheerily drinking beer in the Mess - kidding Harry and Dixie about how today would be their end and a black mark against the PBY's. Little did we dream that we spoke the truth. I thought of Peers davidson with whom I was in company as much as in training and in whoose room I sat ( on his invitation) at Stranraer last Friday Fl/lt Vince Furlong and recalling our party at the King Edward Hotel in Torranto , when he and I took Madeline and Margret Walker out.
    Peers is the first of our class ( that I know) to pass on , I wonder who is next.
    Bed at 1.00 a.m..

    The other PBY had to land at Bowmore on account of weather after going to 23 W over the Atlantic , wonder if they heard the news yet.

    (Will finish this off tomorrow).

    Tuesday March 25th 1941.
    "Very depressing day. rained like Hell from morning till night.
    This afternoon the funeral for the boys killed in the crash was held at irvinestown.Only six of the eight buried there.
    F/lt Whitworth , P/O Peers davidson, Sgts. Dixie Dunbar , Chalk and "Al" Oldfield. (P/O Seward , his body wassent to his folks and harry Newbury being R.C. is having his funeral tomorrow.
    It was a very impressive ceremony, but therain spolied it. Slow marched for about a half a mile to the Church behind the beirs and then in.Quite a crowd mostly Army , Home-Guard , RUC and RAF but a lot of curious folks from Irvinestown who wanted to watch.
    they were laid to rest in the graveyard just outside the church with full military honours , firing party, bugler ( whose bugle got water in it and wouldn't blow worth a damn).
    Group captain bates and the C.O. asked me afterwards if when writing to Peers mother , I would enclose a photograph which he is having taken of the grave. damn nice of him I say.
    the two crews were supposed to move down to the new quarters at Killadeas - 4 miles away - into horribke nissan huts, raining as it was and wet we were , we didn't like the idea for tonight , so when Ho,mes phoned and told us to get off down there after tea - I phoned him and persuaded him to let us stay till morning. Gotta leave at 8.30 and have breakfast there - if we can get any !
    F/Sgt Barret returned today from his leave with his OBE medal which was presented to him at Buckingham palace by the King. he told me all about it. Also says London is having hell bombed out of it, especially last Thursday and Friday nights - but we dropped ten tons of bombs on Berlin last night so "Even Stephens".
    Yugoslavia signed a Pact with Germany today , what now !
    Lost "10 bob" at "Pontoon" tonight - but won it back and more at "Rap" Poker a couple of hours later.
    Wrote a 15 page letter to Peg - til 12.30 - last out of the mess as usual.

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    The graves as they were shortly after the burials.

    The following month a 210 crew which left Lough Erne crashed off the West coast , one of the crew is buried on Cruit Island.
    10 Commonwealth graves only one of them is from AH532 Sgt Horace Arthur tann a W/Op. AG aged 20.
    The other member of this crew F/Sgt Alfred Tizzard AG waswashed ashore on Innishmore , one of the Aran Islands.

    F/lt Henry F.D. Breese
    W.Off. Clifford Bond.
    F/Sgt. Leslie S Dilnutt
    Sgt. Walter H Balch.
    Sgt. Alexander V McRae.
    AC2 Herbert V. Norton
    AC1 james F. Woodard.


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  19. Smudger Jnr

    Smudger Jnr Our Man in Berlin

    I thought that these two pictures were too good not to post on this great Sunderland Thread.

    As the crew of the downed Whitley will bear Testamony to the Sunderlands rescue.

    Pictures from PRO as published in Coastal Command in Action.

    Regards
    Tom
     

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  20. James S

    James S Very Senior Member

    Lucky men Tom , so many died or exposure or were dorwned.
     

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