Tantalising Files & Intriguing Sources

Discussion in 'Research Material' started by Charley Fortnum, Jun 19, 2018.

  1. Charley Fortnum

    Charley Fortnum Dreaming of Red Eagles

    I often come across file names and descriptions that don't really pertain to whatever I'm reading up on, but really make me want to take a peek--I'm sure some of you who spend too much time trawling DISCOVERY find the same thing. How about this?

    Details of detention of General Mansergh G.O.C. Hong Kong on 15 May 1950 at the King Farouk airfield isolation camp

    Reference: FO 371/80562B
    Description: Details of detention of General Mansergh G.O.C. Hong Kong on 15 May 1950 at the King Farouk airfield isolation camp. Code JE file 1611
    Date: 1950​

    This could be nothing--perhaps they are using detention/detain in the sense that he was delayed--but if not what on earth is being alluded to? What was this 'isolation camp' And why would the Foreign Office have files on the matter?

    Online searches yield nothing on any of these scores.
     
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  2. SDP

    SDP Incurable Cometoholic

    Intriguing as you say. Isolation?.....possibly the Permanganate didn't work? ;-)
     
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  3. Tom OBrien

    Tom OBrien Senior Member

    Excess duty frees?
     
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  4. Tullybrone

    Tullybrone Senior Member

    Hi,

    On a serious note...I presume the GOC was transiting through Egypt (presumably by air given the location of the hospital) when he went down with a (suspected) contagious disease and was accommodated in an isolation hospital as would be the norm at the time for both military and civilians.

    Steve
     
    Last edited: Jun 19, 2018
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  5. Charley Fortnum

    Charley Fortnum Dreaming of Red Eagles

    I hadn't thought of that.

    I've just checked adjacent file numbers and found that the companion piece is concerning VISA difficulties with the Egyptians--not sure if that's a clue or not.
     
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  6. SDP

    SDP Incurable Cometoholic

    Should have probably used his MasterCard instead of VISA ?
     
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  7. Charley Fortnum

    Charley Fortnum Dreaming of Red Eagles

    As ever it could be dull as dishwater, but it does make me want to take a peek:

    Hidden gold bullion in Hong Kong

    Reference: CO 537/6062
    Description: Hidden gold bullion in Hong Kong
    Date: 1950
    Held by: The National Archives, Kew
    Former reference in its original department: 54473
    Legal status: Public Record(s)
    Closure status: Open Document, Open Description

    Source:
    Hidden gold bullion in Hong Kong | The National Archives
     
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  8. timuk

    timuk Well-Known Member

    It may refer to the plane crash on Mount Parker, Hong Kong in 1947. Reported as carrying USD15,000,000 (1947 value) gold for Hong Kong banks, however the word 'hidden' in the file title suggests a deliberate act. I would be inclined to think it refers to gold being buried prior to the surrender to Japanese Forces in 1941. I'm afraid you'll have to dig out and get the file copied!!
    Missing plane-crash gold on a Hong Kong hillside?

    Tim
     
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  9. Charley Fortnum

    Charley Fortnum Dreaming of Red Eagles

    Another file--this time from Singapore--that probably wouldn't deliver, but sparks my interest all the same.

    Reference:
    CO 953/9/4
    Description: Award of compensation and pension to Dorethy Becker after husband was shot assisting police in arrest of a madman
    Date: 1951
     
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  10. Quarterfinal

    Quarterfinal Well-Known Member

    Re Mansergh
    matter attributed to an 'uncooperative' official querying the General's cholera documentation:
    http://nasser.bibalex.org/Data/Docs/BritishDocumentsMerged///FO_371_80562B-merged.pdf

    Re Dorothy Becker nee Crisp, 1906-87, a political figure, writer, publisher and qualified advocate of prison reform. Her husband John Becker was part-time special constable in Singapore. While helping the police to arrest an intruder in his office on Robinson Road, he was shot dead. Because he was off-duty at the time, the government denied her a widow's pension. She spent the next three years fighting her case before she was finally awarded an annual pension of £500.
    Dorothy Crisp - Wikipedia
     
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  11. Tullybrone

    Tullybrone Senior Member

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  12. Charley Fortnum

    Charley Fortnum Dreaming of Red Eagles

    Brilliant—do you do children's parties, too?

    Thank you.
     
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  13. Quarterfinal

    Quarterfinal Well-Known Member

    Ah, the coming across of intriguing pieces that .....
    Herewith an offering rubbing shoulders with ....
    ..... which began with a fleeting sight of the end of a rather dull official letter:
    upload_2023-2-8_12-28-31.jpeg

    About a year earlier, the recipient (presumably as instructed by M.I.9/19 staff) had submitted an expenses/compensation claim, Army Form 0 5300A, to his Regimental Paymaster for outgoings incurred supporting several effected escape attempts and other abandoned escape projects.

    This gave an insight into the reality of some material escape liabilities:
    1 set of pyjamas (sent from UK converted to overalls), 1 fountain pen (for forging), 7 shirts, 4 ties, 3 sets of overalls, 4 wristwatches, 1 pair of leather slippers (converted to shoes), 1 Australian Service Dress jacket (converted to a Wehrmacht tunic top), 1 wristwatch type compass, 1 silver cigarette case (for barter), 1 silver cigarette lighter (for barter), 1 gold signet ring (for barter), significant quantities of limited personal rations and cigarettes (for barter and during escape) and personal cash (for barter and during escape), inter alia. Cash involved Sterling (£11.10s.), Reichmarks (general circulation and Lagergeld), Czech Kroner, Russian Roubles, French and Belgian Francs, Greek Drachmas plus sundry others, described “of little more than souvenir use”.

    Standing Pay Office instructions obliged the claim to be presented in a single currency form - as former Nazi Reichmarks - the technical currency in the applicable prisoner of war camps. Escape costs incurred were subsequently itemized and aggregated as 770 former Reichmarks, based on a Pay Office advised Forces Rate of £1=15 Reichmarks.

    In his case, escape money was largely self funded, or loaned from close and trusted friends. Short engagements on working parties offered a key source of funding and locations could also be a better springboard for escape.

    If recaptured, all cash was confiscated by the German authorities - allegedly to prevent scope for another escape and to offset their costs of returning the prisoner to his camp. In one instance, having been stripped of his civilianized attire by the police - ie Gestapo - he was then charged 75 Reichmarks by the Germans for a French uniform provided for this purpose. Watches and other items deemed useful in escape were also seized, hence the number listed in his claim.

    The claim was duly forwarded to The War Office (F.4.P.W) in Whitehall for processing. There then followed a lengthy scrutiny period. It is presumed the time was partly taken up by wider volumes of work for the staff concerned, but was added to by their requests for additional details of component items: description; date of purchase or ownership; cost; receipts; replacement value; where bought and remarks; in addition to where and when used or lost and dates/names/location/addresses/ services/circumstances involved.

    The latter became problematic as he had earlier been directed by M.I.9/19 not to keep documentation or records of some of the details he was now being asked for, or even to discuss certain matters. Processing was thus further extended by War Office staff having to refer to M.I.9/19 staff for classified compartmentation reasons.

    In the end, his claim for all escape items and monies expended, plus another separate claim for 595 Reichmarks witheld by the Germans in unpaid working party ‘savings’, were determined in a War Office letter of 30 October 1946. The secondary claim of 595 Reichmarks had been queried at one point (against other information allegedly held) by Dept F.4.P.W. in Hotel Victoria, Northumberland Avenue although this was never explained or referenced.

    Since initial submission of his claim, he was now being advised that the Forces’ “preferential rate of exchange” had been adjusted to £1 = 40 Reichmarks, although by some arbitrary decision he would be reimbursed for 145 Reichmarks of 'savings' at a preferential rate of £1 = 15 Reichmarks, but the remaining 450 element of that claim, plus his 770 Reichmarks actual escape expenses claim, would only be reimbursed at the lesser rate of £1 = 40 Reichmarks.

    As for seeing “the position more clearly", a core conclusion that any observer could reasonably draw is that having been instructed to calculate his Sterling expenses at a rate of £1 = 15 Reichmarks, then to receive recompense for all the escape elements of his claim at 40 Reichmarks = £1 seems at odds with either 'fair' and/or pointedly, ‘Escape' being truly classed as a ‘Duty.'

    The recipient thought so too, but as he had now been discharged, regarded himself as a fortunate survivor (particularly compared with Far East PWs) and hadn’t escaped for the money, he merely penned a short acknowledgement.
     
    Last edited: Feb 8, 2023
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  14. Charley Fortnum

    Charley Fortnum Dreaming of Red Eagles

    Simple one, but I just want to know what goods are judged dangerous:

    ==================================================

    Movement of dangerous goods around Hong Kong

    Reference: CO 129/626/2
    Description: Movement of dangerous goods around Hong Kong
    Date: 1951 Jan-Apr

    ====================================================

    I confess in my mind's eye it's an charabanc stuffed full of fireworks.
     
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  15. JimHerriot

    JimHerriot Ready for Anything

    Or chickens :)

    Bound to be something not to be sneezed at.

    Kind regards, always,

    Jim.
     

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