The B Line magazine (B Squadron 48th R.T.R)

Discussion in 'General' started by Okay, Nov 24, 2008.

  1. Okay

    Okay Junior Member

    Hello everyone.
    This is my first post. If this is posted in the wrong folder, mods, feel free to move it to where it needs to be.

    I'm a third year Graphic Design student at UWE in Bristol. I'm Writing my dissertation on a magazine, named 'The B-Line' which my grandfather Geoffrey Guy Thomason produced with a man called Alan Gilmore between the years of 1942 - 1945. Both my Grandfather and Alan Gilmore were members of The B Squadron 48th Royal Tank Regiment. The first three issues were produced from Scotland, whilst they were based in the grounds of Hoddom Castle. After that the magazines were produced in Africa and then Italy. The magazine ran for 28 issues (24 of which are in my possession) with one souvenir edition being printed back in england at the close of the war. I have all the copies of the magazine in known existence. I have heard from the Bovington Tank Museum that a man named Peter Gudgin mentioned it in his book 'With Churchills to war', although I am yet to secure a copy. I'm also yet to travel to the museum, although I'll be going down there in a week or two to have a poke around the archives.
    Does anyone have any information on the B Line whatsoever? Has anyone heard of it, know where I might find some information about it or even have a copy?
    Also, I'm very eager to try and make contact with any remaining members of the unit. Sadly my grandfather died many years ago and I have no idea how I would go about contacting any of the members.

    Cheers,
    Olie
     
  2. Bodston

    Bodston Little Willy

    A very interesting and worthwhile project you have there. Sorry I can't help. These regimental magazines and newspapers were always popular with the men.
    Welcome and good luck with your quest.

    Bod
     
  3. Tom Canning

    Tom Canning WW2 Veteran WW2 Veteran

    Okay -
    I also served in 21st Tank bde alongside 48th RTR - but never heard of this magazine - which doesn't surprise me in any way as the 48th were the senoir regiment and sort of looked down on us RAC types...so we called them - as did the North Irish Horse of 25th Tank bde - "Golden Tracks" based on the battalion colours of Gold and Blue plus the fact that their tracks always appeared to be unused whereas the 145th RAC and 12th RTR seemed to be always changing ours as they wore out ! They also had two weeks "rest" at Cattolica in the middle of the Gothic Line, when we only had two days - so 'sucking up' did pay off !!!

    As a graphic art student you should be aware that ( then Captain ) Peter Gudgin of the 48th RTR designed and had made at Caserta the avatar that I use, when we first landed in Italy and were awaiting the arrival of our new Brigadier Kit Dawney.

    We thought it was just another example of the 48th "sucking" up to the new boss !

    Cheers
     
  4. Okay

    Okay Junior Member

    Tom -

    That's fastinating, thanks for the reply. I thought I recognised that 'avatar' somewhere... and here it is, on the cover of the B Line souvenir edition.
    [​IMG]

    the inside text reads...

    Souvenir Cover

    Our cover design, painted by Major C. A. Joss, M.C, reproduces the signs of the various formations to which we have been attached during the North African and Italian campaigns.

    The signs represent :-

    Top: First Army

    Left: Eighth army ; 21st Army Tank Brigade ; 5 Corps ; 1st Canadian Division

    Right: 4th Division ; 8th Indian Division ; 78th Division ; 56th (London) Division.

    Bottom: 43rd Gurkha Brigade.


    I apologise for my ignorance, but what do you mean by 'RAC types'? The B lines are so laced with military terminology and in jokes, sometimes I find them hard to understand. I suppose that 'you had to be there' to understand.

    Cheers

    [EDIT] Aplogies for rubbish photo quality.
     
  5. Owen

    Owen -- --- -.. MOD

    'RAC types'

    I hope I can explain this properly.
    RTR was THE Royal Tank Regiment, born during WW1.
    At the beginning of WW2 the War Department had a lot of surplus Infantry units.
    They decided to covert some of them to Armour.
    They were badged as Royal Armoured Corps (RAC)
    The RTR looked on them as not proper 'tankies'.
    See the History section of this.
    Royal Armoured Corps - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
     
  6. Okay

    Okay Junior Member

    I see. Thanks for clearing that up.
     
  7. Owen

    Owen -- --- -.. MOD

    I don't know if you've thought about it but what about looking at the war diaries at The National Archives and comparing those to what is writen in the magazine?

    Detecting your browser settings

    WO 166/1421 48 Royal Tank Regiment1939 Sept.- 1941 Dec.
    WO 166/6922 48 Royal Tank Regiment1942 Jan.- Dec.
    WO 166/11097 48 Royal Tank Regiment1943 Jan., Feb.
    WO 169/9378 48 Royal Tank Regiment1943 July-Dec.
    WO 170/861 48 Royal Tank Regiment1944 Jan.- Aug.
    WO 170/862 48 Royal Tank Regiment1944 Sept.
    WO 170/863 48 Royal Tank Regiment1944 Oct.- Dec.
    WO 170/4641 48 Royal Tank Regiment1945 Jan.-May
    WO 170/4642 48 Royal Tank Regiment1945 June-Aug.
    WO 175/280 48 Royal Tank Regiment1943 Mar.- June
     
  8. Tom Canning

    Tom Canning WW2 Veteran WW2 Veteran

    Owen and Okay -
    nearly right as the RTR started life as the Royal Tank Corps with regiments - when the amalgamation took place with the Royal Armoured Corps - they became RTR - with battalions -within the Corps as did all the RAC i.e 142 nd Regt(25th Tank Bde originally Suffolks) - 145th Regt (21st bde originally 8th Duke of Wellingtons)

    Both 21st and 25th started life as Army Tank Bdes - then whittled down to Tank bdes in Italy - now they are all Armoured bdes. After the breakup in Dec and return from hospital - I was re-trained at the Rieti base on Armoured cars - at roughly the same time as Ron Goldstein was being re-trained as Tank crew- I was then sent to 16/5th Lancers in the 26th Armoured bde of 6th Armoured - which had Sherman's and Ron went to 4th QOH as a Kangaroo W/op - Infantry carriers......it was afunny old war at times !
    Cheers

    Both were broken up for spares at Cesena (Italy) in Dec '44 - then the North Irish Horse moved over to 21st T bde - 51st RTR went on to become an Armoured /Engineer unit with crocodiles(flame throwers) and other 'funnies' with the 25th bde HQ intact
     
  9. Okay

    Okay Junior Member

    Hello there, me again.
    I'm in the midst of writing my dissertation at the moment. Bod, you mentioned that these magazines were popular with the men. I'm having real trouble digging up any. Can you give any examples? The imperial War Museum wrote back with a negative on any similar publications, and the Tank Museum at Bovington couldn't find anything much either. I visited the museum and spoke with Stuart, one of the librarians in the archive there for quite some time. He showed me The Tank Journal, but this is really pretty removed from The B Line. In my grandfather's writing he mentions that he'd never thought that the magazine would last as long as it did. he thought it would be canceled "as others had" for "saying something the higher ups didn't like. So, there definately are others out there, but I just cant find anything on them! A very interesting and worthwhile project you have These regimental magazines and newspapers were always popular with the men.
    Bod
     
  10. Smudger Jnr

    Smudger Jnr Our Man in Berlin

    Okay,

    Welcome to the forum and I wish you well on your research and project.
    My late father served in the 4th Recce Regt, 4th Inf Div in Italy and I never heard him mention these magazines.
    Sorry I cannot be of help on this subject.

    Regards
    Tom
     
  11. Okay

    Okay Junior Member

    Thankyou Tom,

    Before I started this project, i'd assumed that Squadron magazines would have been fairly commonplace. I didn't think that there would quite be one per squadron, but much more than i've found.

    my grandfather writes in the 14th issue...

    “The B-Lines widening circle of readership now encompasses many outside the members of the squadron for whom it was planned. Our recent questionnaire proved that something like fifty copies, or nearly half the total number printed are sent monthly to relatives and friends, from whom some appreciative comments have been received. We imagine all the senders have their work cut out trying to explain all the topical allusions. Copies now reach the B Squadrons of the 12th and 145.”


    Also, what in your opinions (the users of the forum) do you think the men would have gotten from a monthly (well, mostly monthly atleast) publication of this nature. It ran for thirty issues in total, so it did become quite a regular part of the men's lives. Stuart Wheeler, from the Tank Museum made a parallel with reading the 'new issue of the B Line' with reading a letter from home. Something to look forward to.

    I can understand that there may have been rivalry between A, B and C squadrons in a regiment, but this perhaps goes to insinuate that B squadrons as a whole may have shared some kind of allegiance? Would that be true to do you think?
     
  12. Tom Canning

    Tom Canning WW2 Veteran WW2 Veteran

    OKAY -
    Surprised to learn that your B line magazine was obtainable in both B squadrons of the 12RTR and 145RAC - as a member of "A" squadron 145 RAC I never saw this publication - but then we never fought as a regiment even seldom as a squadron as we were always close support for a compnay of Infantry which a troop of three tanks could handle - in my last battle at San Martino on the Coriano Ridge - we went in with two companies of infantry with two troops of tanks - twenty minutes later we had five all burning - and the other retiring with a dead Commander !

    Cheers
     
  13. Fiddichs

    Fiddichs Junior Member

    Hi,

    I think my Grandfather served in the 48th R.T.R. How would I find out if he served with your grandfather?
     
  14. Tom Canning

    Tom Canning WW2 Veteran WW2 Veteran

    Fiddichs -
    the 48th Tanks were as most were - made up of approx. 600 men per battailon - seldom did one meet a member of another squadron unless at a sports day or such like - so you would need to know which squadron both men were in - and their respective troops to see if there was any chance of their meeting ....

    Cheers
     
  15. lennysden

    lennysden Junior Member

    I don't know if you've thought about it but what about looking at the war diaries at The National Archives and comparing those to what is writen in the magazine?

    Detecting your browser settings

    WO 166/1421 48 Royal Tank Regiment1939 Sept.- 1941 Dec.
    WO 166/6922 48 Royal Tank Regiment1942 Jan.- Dec.
    WO 166/11097 48 Royal Tank Regiment1943 Jan., Feb.
    WO 169/9378 48 Royal Tank Regiment1943 July-Dec.
    WO 170/861 48 Royal Tank Regiment1944 Jan.- Aug.
    WO 170/862 48 Royal Tank Regiment1944 Sept.
    WO 170/863 48 Royal Tank Regiment1944 Oct.- Dec.
    WO 170/4641 48 Royal Tank Regiment1945 Jan.-May
    WO 170/4642 48 Royal Tank Regiment1945 June-Aug.
    WO 175/280 48 Royal Tank Regiment1943 Mar.- June
    owen
    I noticed you have put up the war records for the 48th RTR via the national archives.
    Another quick way of getting these records is through the Tank musuem at Bovington. I know this as I have the full records via the tank musuem.

    Darren ( lennysden)
     
  16. lennysden

    lennysden Junior Member

    Fiddichs -
    the 48th Tanks were as most were - made up of approx. 600 men per battailon - seldom did one meet a member of another squadron unless at a sports day or such like - so you would need to know which squadron both men were in - and their respective troops to see if there was any chance of their meeting ....

    Cheers
    Tom ( also fiddichs )
    Fiddichs have you tried getting your Grandfather's service records?
    Also try getting the book " WITH CHURCHILLS TO WAR" 48th RTR
    by Peter Gudgin. In the book near the back is a list of servicemen who served in the 48th RTR ( although not complete " I think").
    What was your Grandfathers name fiddichs? I have the book, I will look it up for you.

    TOM

    I hope you don't mind me asking but what's your connection with the North Africa / Italy campaign?

    Darren (lennysden)
     
  17. Oldman

    Oldman Very Senior Member

    Tom/Okay
    I have a copy of the Eighth Army news that my Dad kept in his belongings so it may have been similar and not widely available to all unit members
    I recall my father saying he got it from the Hq troops whilst wating for his Lt
     
  18. Tom Canning

    Tom Canning WW2 Veteran WW2 Veteran

    Darren-
    My connection with the North Africa / Italian campaign is simply that I was a member of the #5 troop sergeant Trevor Williams' Tank Crew -the Troop commander being Lt.Graham Douse - of "A" squadron 145th RAC , which I joined as a reinforcement in 1943.

    Both Lt. Douse and Sgt. Williams were killed along with too many others, at San Martino on the Coriano Ridge of the Gothic line in Northern Italy on September 17th 1944., in which battle I was wounded along with our gunner Harold Gray - and spent a few months in various hospitals from Ancona - to Bari - to Catania, Sicily before returning to serve in the 16/5th Lancers of the 26th Armoured bde of the 6th Armoured division - mainly in Austria as the war finished, before being demobbed in 1947.

    Trust this is what your enquiry is all about ?
    Cheers
     
  19. dave3164

    dave3164 @davidcarter1978

    Seems a bit late to be responding to this thread but as it got bumped I may as well.

    I can find two references to a newsletter/newsheet being written by a member of the 53rd Recce Reg. The first comes from the war diary dated February 1942:

    "For many months now a small broadsheet has been circulated through the Bn. from a mysterious source. Its author is now revealed as Cpl. Wagstaffe of QM stores. This paper is now giving quite a circulation and a few copies are attached (missing)".

    The second from the regimental history "Welsh Spearhead":

    "And lastly mention must be made of the 'Recce Rag', a weekly paper begun in January 1942 by Cpl EC Wagstaffe and reaching its peak during the campaign when it appeared as a daily news-sheet , only reverting to its former weekly appearance when the fighting was over. Cpl Wagstaffe was its sole editor and though he had Squadron correpondents the credit for its production must go to him entirely. The last number appeared on 2nd February 1946"


    Dave
     
  20. von Poop

    von Poop Adaministrator Admin

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