The Battle of Britain

Discussion in 'The War In The Air' started by Drew5233, Oct 15, 2008.

  1. Drew5233

    Drew5233 #FuturePilot Patron 1940 Obsessive

    I've nearly finished reading Forgotten Voices (BoB edition)

    And there are two points I've come across that keep bothering me if they are true or not.

    1. Did some German fighter pilots machine gun RAF pilots that had bailed out?

    Some RAF pilots say they saw it and some RAF pilots deny it happened and that it was a urban myth. The German pilots say that they heard of such stories but do not believe it nor did they ever do or see it happen.

    2. Some RAF pilots reffer to downed RAF pilots being shot and killed by angry mobs and the Home Guard after they hand landed by parachute after being shot down over England. It even mentions that they didn't believe they were English despite the pilots perfect English gramma (I appreciate this may have been a problem for the Polish and Czech's etc) due to rumours of 5th columnists parachuting into England dress in all manor of disguise.

    Whats your thoughts ?
     
  2. sapper

    sapper WW2 Veteran WW2 Veteran

    Well I was around then, and for me all the tales are Rubbish
     
  3. Gage

    Gage The Battle of Barking Creek MOD

    Don't think there's any hard evidence for RAF pilots being shot up while parachuting. There's also stories of Polish pilots shooting at baled-out German airmen.

    The only Fighter Command VC winner, James Nicolson was shot in the buttocks with shotgun pellets, after baling out, by the LDV on August 16th 1940.
     
  4. von Poop

    von Poop Adaministrator Admin

    I wouldn't doubt that Airmen of all sides were shot at while bailing out, while it's sometimes nice to consider the chivalric side there always will be, (and has to be?), viciousness in war... which could be considered an understandable policy if the man being shot at could be out to kill you again by the next day. Though obviously it can cut both ways if you end up bailing yourself - does an airman in a parachute immediately qualify as out of the battle, or does his likelihood of returning to action mean he retains 'legitimate target' status? Can you continue to shoot if he's over his home ground, or is he to be regarded as a POW if over your own territory?
    Heavy stuff perhaps, ethically & militarily, but Wars aren't exactly 'nice' by their very nature.

    It's one of the reasons the 'Forgotten Voices' series is so interesting isn't it. All of the accounts are from people who were there but there can be as much subjectivity in a primary but personal source as can be found elsewhere, very hard to make real conclusions based on just one perspective. Any isolated source is relevant & interesting, but most always requires further corroboration to come to any sort of conclusion.
     
  5. Gage

    Gage The Battle of Barking Creek MOD

    It's one of the reasons the 'Forgotten Voices' series is so interesting isn't it. All of the accounts are from people who were there but there can be as much subjectivity in a primary but personal source as can be found elsewhere, very hard to make real conclusions based on just one perspective. Any isolated source is relevant & interesting, but most always requires further corroboration to come to any sort of conclusion.

    It is very weird how many people can all witness one event but all can tell a differing view.
    The Dambusters book I'm reading at the minute is in the same form as the 'Forgotten Voices'. It's amazing how maybe three Airmen all can say something different to the same aspects of the raid.

    I think at the time there was still a 'Knights of the Air' respect between the RAF and the Luftwaffe.
     
  6. Smudger Jnr

    Smudger Jnr Our Man in Berlin

    Gage,

    From my experience of taking witness statements. It is very common for several people to all witness the same event and when questioned as a witness their version of events differ a little.
    So nothing unusual about variations on memories.

    Regards

    Tom
     
  7. Drew5233

    Drew5233 #FuturePilot Patron 1940 Obsessive

    Gage,

    From my experience of taking witness statements. It is very common for several people to all witness the same event and when questioned as a witness their version of events differ a little.
    So nothing unusual about variations on memories.

    Regards

    Tom

    You're not wrong there...Its when they all say the same thing that it gets a wee bit dodgey :lol:
     
  8. Versias8245

    Versias8245 Member

    Hey there.

    Long time-No see. I was wondering does anyone know the full names of the following airmen of 29 and 151 Squadron

    Sgt AG Dannatt of 29
    Sgt ? Lloyd of 29
    Sgt PJ MacAllister of 29
    F/O CD Whittingham of 151 Squadron
    and
    F/O RNH Courtney AFC.

    It's really no big deal if no one knows them.
     
  9. spidge

    spidge RAAF RESEARCHER

    Hey there.

    Long time-No see. I was wondering does anyone know the full names of the following airmen of 29 and 151 Squadron

    Sgt AG Dannatt of 29
    Sgt ? Lloyd of 29
    Sgt PJ MacAllister of 29
    F/O CD Whittingham of 151 Squadron
    and
    F/O RNH Courtney AFC.

    It's really no big deal if no one knows them.

    Courtney's nickname was "Buck" in Burma! Not much help but better than nothing.
     
  10. Gage

    Gage The Battle of Barking Creek MOD

    Hey there.

    Long time-No see. I was wondering does anyone know the full names of the following airmen of 29 and 151 Squadron

    Sgt AG Dannatt of 29
    Sgt ? Lloyd of 29
    Sgt PJ MacAllister of 29
    F/O CD Whittingham of 151 Squadron
    and
    F/O RNH Courtney AFC.

    It's really no big deal if no one knows them.

    Alexander George Dannatt
    Charles Derek Whittingham
    Ronald Noel Hamilton Courtney
    PJ MacAllister is only listed as PJ
    Lloyd flew only one sortie with 29 sqd during the Battle on August 10th and there are no other service details.
     
    von Poop likes this.
  11. Versias8245

    Versias8245 Member

    Thank you Gage. I really appreciate your help.
     
  12. Gage

    Gage The Battle of Barking Creek MOD

    Thank you Gage. I really appreciate your help.

    No problems, mate. If you need anymore info and I can help just ask.

    Thanks for the thanks. :)
     
  13. Versias8245

    Versias8245 Member

    Hello Gage

    Today I am now looking for five airmen from 264 Squadron

    F/O NR Debree
    Sgt P Lillie
    Sgt A Martin
    Sgt GE Smith
    and
    Sgt FW Wake.

    If you know then full names of these men, I would love to hear from you.
     
  14. Gage

    Gage The Battle of Barking Creek MOD

    Hello Gage

    Today I am now looking for five airmen from 264 Squadron

    F/O NR Debree
    Sgt P Lillie
    Sgt A Martin
    Sgt GE Smith
    and
    Sgt FW Wake.

    If you know then full names of these men, I would love to hear from you.

    Nicholas Robert Dobree (not Debree- typo?)
    P Lillie (can't trace first name)
    A Martin (can't trace first name)
    Godfrey Ernest Smith
    Frederick William Wake

    Hope this is ok.
     
  15. Versias8245

    Versias8245 Member

    Thanks again Gage
     
  16. Versias8245

    Versias8245 Member

    Hello again.

    today I am now looking for the full names of four airmen from 151, 248 and 266 Squadron. If anyone knows these men, I would love to hear you.

    Sgt EJ McKie
    F/O PGH Mitchell
    P/O ML Wells
    and
    F/O CD Whittingham.
     
  17. Gage

    Gage The Battle of Barking Creek MOD

    Hello again.

    today I am now looking for the full names of four airmen from 151, 248 and 266 Squadron. If anyone knows these men, I would love to hear you.

    Sgt EJ McKie
    F/O PGH Mitchell
    P/O ML Wells
    and
    F/O CD Whittingham.

    Ernest John McKie
    Phillip Henry Gurrey Mitchell (letters wrong way round?)
    Malcolm Leslie Wells
    Charles Derek Whittingham (already gave you, see earlier in thread)

    There you go Versias.
     
  18. Versias8245

    Versias8245 Member

    Oops!!. anyway Thanks again Gage, you're a great help.
     
  19. Versias8245

    Versias8245 Member

    Hello again. I was hoping again if anyone knows the full names of the following "D" airmen. Also if anyone knows there from England, Scotland or Wales, I would love to find out.

    Sgt PE Davis
    P/O JT Davison
    Sgt CAW Dixon
     
  20. Paul Reed

    Paul Reed Ubique

    551875 Sgt WoP/AG Peter Edgar Davis, 236 Squadron

    Joined the RAF as a Boy, joined 236 Sq in Oct 1940. Taken POW and freed in 1945.

    70020 Pilot Officer John Tregonwell Davison, 235 Squadron

    B. 1914 in New Zealand, and commissioned NZAF in 1939. To UK May 1940 and posted to 235 Sq in Aug 1940. During a convoy attack in a Blenheim on 23 November 1940 he was wounded and aircraft damaged. They crashed and an unused bomb exploded on inpact. He went back into the blazing wreck with his Wop/AG and rescued the observer, and was awarded a George Medal for bravery (13.3.41) and was badly burned. He had staff posting for the rest of the war and retired from NZAF in 1951. He died in NZ on 9.10.81.

    124628 Sgt Pilot Christopher Alexander Wilfred Dixon, 601 Squadron

    Joined RAFVR in June 1939. Joined 601 Sq in Sept 1940. Commissioned April 1942. Left RAF (?discharged) in 1944. Died 1977.

    This is all from Men of the Battle of Britain by K.G.Wynn (CCB 1999). Hope it helps.
     

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