THE FORGOTTEN WAR. The China India Burma theatre.

Nice post China http://www.ww2talk.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=27547&d=1272145876

 

Ref above post its not Wingate its Calvert BRIGADIER MICHAEL CALVERT

 

Ref above post its not Wingate its Calvert

??? What makes you say that ?

All the sources I have say it's Wingate who visited with Mountbatten. I know we don't often see him in smart uniforms but...unless that is Calvert and Wingate is somewhere else on the camp and not in the pic...???

 

??? What makes you say that ?

All the sources I have say it's Wingate who visited with Mountbatten. I know we don't often see him in smart uniforms but...unless that is Calvert and Wingate is somewhere else on the camp and not in the pic...???
The two men in question

 

my computer or me tired here's Calvert........... ok not me then

 

Thanks...hmm well that's a puzzle because none of the sources I have about the visit mention Calvert...sigh

 

Sorry China, to cause a headache but im sure its Calvert will do some research my end see what I can find all the best Jason

 

??? What makes you say that ?

All the sources I have say it's Wingate who visited with Mountbatten. I know we don't often see him in smart uniforms but...unless that is Calvert and Wingate is somewhere else on the camp and not in the pic...???
China I stand corrected my apoligises it is Wingate having zommed in and studied the picture you can see it is him after comparing similar pics of him in normal attire! plus you can make out the rank of Major General on his shoulder compared to Calvert being a Brigadier at the time. Also to add I found this in my copy of Phillip Zieglars book 'Personal Diary Of Admiral Lord Louis Mountbatten' "Wednesday 12 January 1944 ( Latipur) At 1215 I drove off in a jeep with the General.(note below on page confirms this as Wingate) We stopped on the way and had a luncheon off one of the American 'K' rations which are issued to this unit.It was excellent.I found the Americans had as usual, sent a large armed guard of 20 men with tommy guns who took up defensive positons round our picnic party, though god knows who they thought was going to attack us in the heart of India.After lunch I persuaded them to go back to their own camp and we went on enescorted to Gona".This is the day after the pic above and confirms Wingates presence sorry mate panic over

 

Phew thanks I was getting puzzled. I know the clean shave and the Service Dress is a bit confusing

I had checked Zeigler's book as well last night, and agree that it implies it is Wingate in the entry for the 12th. It is odd however that Mountbatten did not record the visit to the 5307th on 11th January...or maybe he did and Zeigler, for whatever reason, decided not to include that text ?

Anyway, cheers again !

 

Hi Jason/China,

I have seen that photo some where else, but cannot remember where. I have read Carl Eifler's book 'The Deadliest Colonel', perhaps it was in that. I was watching your chat guys and deciding whether to come in with my view.

Wingate it is, although I can see how it could look a bit like Mike Calvert, with the slick down hair and all. It is not often that you see Wingate clean shaven and well groomed, comes as a bit of a shock.


Bamboo.

 

Hi Bamboo...thanks, could well be. I am assuming it is a US official photo, either a phot. with the VIP party or a phot. within 5307th. However the copy of the print I have has no censor etc markings on the back, either US or British, unlike some of the others in my uncle's album.

Anyways, you have encouraged me to post some more pics...wait one, as they say...maybe we need a new thread on this story within your main CBI area...

OK here are some more...

Slightly poor quality but anyway...entitled 'Planning table' by my uncle, who has written on the back, "OC [him] and Matron lay out the model tents on the plan...she looks clean...Miss Howe was almost clean...I wasn't" He always had a droll sense of humour. Interesting to see the little model tents they were using to work out what goes where.

These three gents are labelled as (L to R) Gen Martin [he's a Brit] ; Major Shudmack (US Army) ; Col Campbell [Brit, with impressive medal ribbons ? another similar pic mentions he has DSO, MBE, MC etc and says "looks savage"].

Maj Shudmack is described in the hospital War Diary as US Army Medical Department. Col Campbell is described ditto as DDMS [Deputy Director Medical Services] Special Force, so I take it he was a senior 'Chindit' medic - hence the awards ?

The completed hospital from a distance

Entitled "first patients arrive"
View attachment 29807
Another shot of Lord Louis Mountbatten meeting Marauders...one notes the bottles in the background - presumably as it was a British hospital it was not "dry"

A surgical ward
View attachment 29809
This is interesting as it is marked on the back "Operating room...Lt Col Gilroy Glass [my uncle], surgeon, photo by 164 Sig Photo Co taken by PFC Milton Koff", with a marking saying it was passed by US Photographic Censor. I am not sure if this was ever used in a publication. It is nice one of my uncle at work as he was an ear/nose/throat specialist, which appears to be what he is doing. I also discovered, when researching this back in the 1990s, that Milton Koff was still alive and in touch with the Merrill's Marauder's Association. I found some more of his pics in the NA War Diary file for the hospital.

It's nice to have an excuse to look back at these, it's ages since I have...I had forgotten how interesting it all was....anyway, hope of interest to others

 

I looked here and can only find a Captain Campbell M.B.E. RAMC Chindits Awards List

 

Hi China,

Good to see those photos. I have recently been reading into the medical side of things in the CBI theatre (no pun intended). From my point of view I have kept it to stories related to the Chindit campaigns, but have branched out on occasions.

These books are extremely good for getting a feel for what it was like out there in WW2:

'Crisis Fleeting', by James H. Stone. This is a thorough account of all medical operations and procedures during the war in the CBI region. It is heavy going but brilliant for detail. It is published by the US State Department, Army section. A must for anyone with a medical interest.

'Burma Surgeon', by Gordon Seagrave, and the follow up, 'Burma Surgeon Returns'. These are the famous accounts of Doctor Seagrave's trials and tribulations in setting up and running vital hospitals on the Burma/China borders.

'Quiet Heroines', by Brenda McBryde. This is an overview of QAIMNS nurses and their service in WW2.

' The Maturing Sun' by Angela Bolton. A touching story of the harsh reality faced by newly recruited nurses and their coming to terms with the Asian climate and medical demands.

All of these are worth reading.

China, do you have any idea if there are documents relating to the General Hospitals and Casualty Clearing Stations in India for the WW2 period. I am particularly interested in the 19th CCS based at Imphal in 1943. This station dealt with the sick and wounded Chindits as they returned from the first Wingate operation.

Cheers.

Bamboo.

 

wtid45 - fair dos, thanks, Campbell maybe got it for something else earlier...

Bamboo43 - thanks, useful for future ref ! On documents, my uncle 80th British General Hospital had a War Diary at WO177/1347 in National Archives, 1941-47, which I examined extensively in the 1990s. WO177 is Army Medical Services: War Diaries, Second World War ; General Hospitals, so presumably you'd find others in that series. CCS's I am not sure about.

One British manual I do have is 'Field Service Hygiene Notes - India', 1945 - 900 pages of how fight bugs etc ! If there is any specific issue I could look up in that for you, let me know.

 

Thanks China,

Thats some very useful cross over info between us.

I will browse the WO177 archives later this week. What I am after in the first instance are names of personnel who tended the 1943 Chindits. They would qualify for a place on my 1943 Roll of Honour, which is an attempt to collect the names of as many of the 3000 people that made up 'Operation Longcloth'

I have at the moment around 1390 names, some confirmed, others anecdotally suggested as being involved. It is a fair size document. One day I will start my own website as a tribute to them all.

When time allows it might be interesting to record the ailments and diseases contracted by the Chindits, malaria will no doubt be the winner by a long way? Closely followed by dysentery and jungle sores.

Thanks again.

Bamboo.

 

Thanks, good to know about your project. I doubt I can add anything immediately but will keep it in mind.

Having had a quick check of my old files, I assume you have seen (or even own) Crew, F.A.E., The Army Medical Services : Campaigns - Volume 5, Burma, HMSO, 1966, which is the relevant official history ? I looked at a library copy back in 1997 and took a few general notes. Looks like it might be relevant if you have not seen it. But I am sure you have !

If you have not, I can send you my notes from then, which include some overall stats especially on malaria. I also note that my uncle's 80th BGH may have been one that was taking casualties during 1943...which is perhaps why they were chosen to support the Marauders. I only looked at their WD for Nov 1943-Feb 1944, so am not sure if the rest of its 1943 entries are of any use.

 

Hi China,

No, I have not seen or read the Army Medical Services book. Your notes would be very useful and of interest to me. I will keep an eye out on Amazon, or contact my library and see if they can track a copy down.

The 1943 Chindits would have began to return to India in late April through August that year. Where was 80th BGH based?

How shall we proceed regarding your notes?

Thanks.

Bamboo.

 

Bamboo/China nice to see the way this thread has gone Chinas pics and information are great and between you both have produced some really detailed information, I really must study more widely on the CBI

 

Hi China,

No, I have not seen or read the Army Medical Services book. Your notes would be very useful and of interest to me. I will keep an eye out on Amazon, or contact my library and see if they can track a copy down.

The 1943 Chindits would have began to return to India in late April through August that year. Where was 80th BGH based?

How shall we proceed regarding your notes?

Thanks.

Bamboo.

Hi...right. I have just checked Abebooks but no copies. It's probably quite rare - I saw a copy in the specialist medical library of Edinburgh Univ ! Not sure where you are, but WORLDCAT returns other copies in Bromley, Croydon, Hatfield, Bridgewater and Univ of Leicester - if any are close let me know and I will send the relevant link. Or you could try IWM, NAM etc if you are in London. Or RAMC Museum ?

80BGH was at Jhansi late 1943, before that Lohardaga, if I am reading my uncle's typically difficult doctor's handwriting correctly !

In terms of my notes, PM me your email and I will send a pdf. There's just 3 pages I sent to James Hopkins who did the most recent and largest history of the Marauders.

 

China,

Amazon have a volume of the series for sale, but it does not state which one? It's publication date is 1957, so not sure if its the right one.

I will pm you soon, thanks again. By the way, Jhansi railway station was the last point in January 1943 that the Chindits trained before setting off to walk into Burma.

Bamboo.