The Sherman Tank what an amazing vehicle!!

Discussion in 'Weapons, Technology & Equipment' started by kfz, Nov 11, 2006.

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  1. von Poop

    von Poop Adaministrator Admin

    Looks like a model.
     
  2. von Poop

    von Poop Adaministrator Admin

  3. Dave55

    Dave55 Very Senior Member Patron

    Now that you mention it, it does look like a model.Heck of a good model if it is.

    I found another occurrence of it with this caption:

    This Marine M4A3 75w tank is heavily modified to deal with the threats specific to the Japanese, the spikes were less about protecting the tank from Japanese soldiers, it was to give stand off space for explosive charges the Japanese would try and place on weak spots like the hatches or periscopes.
     
  4. Ron Goldstein

    Ron Goldstein WW2 Veteran WW2 Veteran Patron

    In 2011 i visited the Tank Museum at Latrun in Israel and was amused to see the Sherman tank that they had hoisted to the top of a tower as an evident show of how they obviously rated it !

    Ron Sherman tank on a tower at Latrun.JPG
     
    Last edited: Dec 14, 2017
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  5. tron333

    tron333 Member

    It is truly amazing that every war fought presents problems that force modifications to solve the problem, thus creating more problems. The Tiger although an amazing piece of technology and terror was inadequate for anything outside of its primary mission. The Tiger was to annihilate anything on the battle field that challenged it. It did so with aplomb . Sadly ,it was to big and clumsy, it hated sand and tight roads along with small villages. Broke down often. Deployed in ways that exposed it's soft underbelly tactically. The Sherman had speed . It was not designed to go toe to toe with heavies and yet it was used in this way. The losses were staggering. At Kasserine Pass The first Armour used half tracks with howitzers and they proved weak but better than nothing since tactically Gen. Freidenhall was the best weapon the Germans had. PZKW3/4 seemed to be quite the desert weapon, but Shermans could match them in close combat. As the war progressed the Tigers still had issues and the Shermans were desperately trying to solve the Ronsin Lighter problem (bolt on armor, driver spalling plate, trees lashed to sides) The Russian T34 proved to be quite the tank in that if you shoved enough of them under the tiger's treads you could render the Tigers useless. Proof that Quantity versus quality wins the battle. One Point, The Brit's design to turn the 5 pounder sideways in the turret of the Sherman to make the Terry FireFly along with the M36 tank destroyer were just enough to get the job done albeit at great expense to human life. IMHO.
     
  6. tron333

    tron333 Member

    Ron You go to the coolest places !
     
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  7. von Poop

    von Poop Adaministrator Admin

    Placed there in the late 70s, and who can blame them. Certainly served them well, and a case can be made for the country's very existence resting on M4s, whether scavenged up postwar or acquired more conventionally later.

    Hmmm, would quite like to read something detailed on Israeli Sherman-grabbing. Have assorted reference to machines being dragged from the sea, the Philippines, and every postwar dump they could access but not much specific. Wonder if Tal or someone wrote a memoir.
     
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  8. Ron Goldstein

    Ron Goldstein WW2 Veteran WW2 Veteran Patron

    Tron333
    Regrettably that should now read "You used to go to the coolest places! " as my traveling days are long past !

    Adam
    I remember once reading an amazing tale of Israel's search for weapons immediately after the State was created but I think the emphasis was on fighter planes. I'm now off, hotfoot, to see what I can dig up about Shermans :)

    Lot's to read on the subject, such as this: Sherman Tanks of the Israeli Army

    Ron
     
    Last edited: Dec 15, 2017
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  9. Dave55

    Dave55 Very Senior Member Patron

  10. Dave55

    Dave55 Very Senior Member Patron

    Found this:

    The Radios: I don’t know much about tank radios, but I will when done with this section.

    The Sherman tank came with a SCR 508, 528 or 538 radio set. Command tanks had an additional SCR 506 mounted in the right front sponson. This let the tank listen on the net for the HQ he answered to while still talking to his own unit. The main radio set also had the tank intercom built into it. This intercom allowed the crew to talk to each other, but not transmit on the radio, only the commander could do that.



    Here is a fascinating transcript of a Marine tank company radio chatter, taken by a US destroyer off shore. You can find this on page 64 of Michael Greens M4 Sherman at War.



    “This is Red Two, Red One, heartburn says that he is ready to start shooting at those pillboxes”

    “Tell Heartburn I can’t receive him. You will have to relay. Tell him to give us a signal and well spot for him”

    “Red Two wilco”

    “Heartburn, raise your fire. You’re firing right into us”

    “That’s not Heartburn, Red Two, That’s a that’s a high velocity gun from our left rear. I heard it whistle. Red One out.”

    “Red Three, this is Red One. Can you see that gun that’s shooting into us?”

    “Red One, I think that’s our own gunfire.”

    “Goddamnit, it’s not, I tell you. It’s a high velocity gun and not a howitzer. Investigate or there on your left. But watch out for infantry; they’re right in there somewhere”

    “Red Two, tell Heartburn down fifty, left fifty”

    “Red Two wilco”

    “Red Three, what are you doing? Go south west!”

    “I’m heading south west Red One.”

    “For Christ sake, get oriented. I can see you, Red Three. You are heading are heading northwest.Fox Love with hard left brake. Cross the road and go back up behind that house”

    “But”

    I don’t know why I bother with you, Red Three. Yellow One, take charge of Red Three and get him squared away. And get that gun; it’s too close.”

    “Red One from Red Two, Heartburn wants to know if we are the front lines”

    “Christ yes we’re plenty front right now”

    “This is Red Two, artillery on the way”

    “Red one wilco”

    “Red One from Yellow One. I can see some Japs setting up a machine gun about 100 yards to my right”

    “Those are our troops Yellow One, don’t shoot in there”

    “The man at my telephone - I think he’s an Officer, - says we have no troops in there.”

    “Yellow Two, go over there and investigate. Don’t shoot at them; that man at the telephone probably doesn’t know where the troops are. If they’re Japs, run them over.”

    “Yellow One, wilco.”

    “Go ahead, Yellow Two. What in God’s name are you waiting for?”

    “I’m up as far as I can go and still depress my machine guns.”

    “The hell with your machine guns! I told you to run over them! Run over them, Goddamnit; obey your orders!”

    “Yellow Two, wilco”

    “Yellow One, what have you to report on that machine gun?”

    “Red One, a Jap stood up and threw a grenade at us so I gave him a squirt.”

    “Did you run over that gun like I told you?”

    “No. Red One, we put an HE into it and wrecked it.”

    “Christ, won’t you people ever learn to conserve your ammunition…”

    “Red One from Green Two, I’m stuck between two trees.”

    “Green Three stand by him. After the infantry has cleared up around there, get your assistant driver out and tow him clear.”

    “Green Three, wilco”

    “While you’re waiting, Green three, keep an eye out on that house on your right. I see troops coming out of there with bottles in their shirts.”

    “Can I send my assistant driver over to investigate?”

    “Stay in your tank”

    “Yellow One, from Red Three, where are you going?”

    “Red One from Green Four. I am moving out to take out a pillbox the infantry pointed out I will I will take care of it and let them catch up.”

    “Where is it, Green Four?”

    “In that clump of bushes to my right.”

    “Can you see it? It is all right to fire? Wait Green four”

    “Green Four wilco”

    “Green Four, you better not fire. The 4th Marines are over there somewhere.”

    “Run up on the box and turn around on it”

    “It’s one of those coconut log things. It looks like it my be to strong to squash. Is it all right if I fire into the slit?”

    “Affirmative, but be careful, wilco”

    “Red One, this is Hairless. We’ve got some Japs bottled up in two caves in Target Area Four Baker. We’d like you to leave two tanks to watch them.”

    “You know damn well that’s infantry work. We’re a mobile outfit, not watchdogs. Put your saki drinkers in there.”

    “Ok Harry, Red One out.”

    “All tanks start ‘em up. Move out now. Guide right and form a shallow right echelon. As soon as we hit the flat ground around the airfield, spread out to one hundred and fifty yard interval. Al right, move out, move out
     
  11. von Poop

    von Poop Adaministrator Admin

    Brilliant stuff, Dave.
    Reminds me so much of Ken Tout's fictionalised tank chatter too.
    Confusing, and very human. Reinforces that there were fleshy things inside those metal boxes.
     
  12. canuck

    canuck Token Colonial Patron

    That is an illuminating series of conversations. Perhaps not the most high functioning group of tankers who ever went into battle.
     
  13. von Poop

    von Poop Adaministrator Admin

    Bought a 1979 copy of Jane's World AFVs.

    M4 variants still in service with Argentina (including Firefly), Brazil, Chile, Columbia, Guatemala, India, Iran, Israel, Japan, Lebanon, Mexico, Pakistan, Paraguay, Peru, Portugal, Philippines, S Korea, Uganda, Yugoslavia (Including Firefly).
    Sherman ARVs, M32 & M74 still in service with a few nations.
    Japanese using a Sherman chassis to trial a scissors bridgelayer.
    And the expected slew of Israeli mods, including this fine shot of a 160mm mortar variant produced by the Soltam company.
    soltamsherman.jpg

    As a Grizzly aside: Sextons still listed in 1979 service with India, Italy, Portugal, South Africa.

    M10: Still going in Denmark & S Korea.
    M36: Pakistan, S. Korea, Turkey, Yugoslavia.
     
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  14. Dave55

    Dave55 Very Senior Member Patron

    The Israeli armored ambulances are great. Love how the moved the engine from back to front.

     
  15. Seroster

    Seroster Canadian researcher Patron

    I confess to being skeptical that Denmark or South Korea are still using M10s. In what capacity?
     
  16. Dave55

    Dave55 Very Senior Member Patron

    Here's a neat one:

    Harold A. Skaarup, author of Shelldrake

    [​IMG]

    M4A2E8 ARV, Camp Gagetown, ca 1950s or 60s. (NBMHM, 5 CDS Base Gagetown Photo)

    A number of Canadian post war Shermans in Canada were converted into turretless APCs. This one appears to be in use as an armoured recovery vehicle based on the tow bar attached at the rear, but it may also have been used as a driver trainer. The headlights and guards on the glacis plate appear to have been taken from a Centurion and the box in the middle of the glacis plate is a Centurion driver's windscreen stowage box. It also appears that the Centurion tank front fenders have been attached to the front of the Sherman. The exhausts have been re-routed up the rear of the hull as indicated by the dual stacks. This is reminisent of privately owned post war Shermans used for logging and other industries. Jason Bobrowich.
     
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  17. Dave55

    Dave55 Very Senior Member Patron

    Found this in public domain. So much good stuff going on. I think the truck is a GMC 2.5 but I've never seen one with a derrick like that before

    Edit:

    Just noticed the guy's tool box on the ground with letters and pictures on the inside lid.

    upload_2018-7-12_13-58-59.png
     
  18. von Poop

    von Poop Adaministrator Admin

    ;)
     
  19. Seroster

    Seroster Canadian researcher Patron

    Whoops!

    Not completely surprised, then :)
     
  20. chrisgrove

    chrisgrove Senior Member

    Dave55. That wrecker is much bigger than a deuce (and has quite different front mudguards). It is a Ward-la-France M1 6 ton 6x6 Heavy Wrecker.
    Chris
     
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