The Soviets Fought The Japanese Twice

Discussion in 'War Against Japan' started by DengXiaoPing, Oct 20, 2005.

  1. spidge

    spidge RAAF RESEARCHER Patron

    (DengXiaoPing @ Oct 23 2005, 09:42 PM) [post=40473]The only one who is a school child is you, and i must repeat myself because you never read more than maybe 1 or 2 words that i say[/b]

    </div><div class='quotemain'>And it would be so simple to prove me wrong just go to an University or milatery academy and ask them who did the most in stopping the euro axis[/b]


    Do you believe that the bombing of industrialised germany by the allied nations contributed on a very large scale to the inability of the Nazi war machine to function to it's fullest extent in the East?
     
  2. spidge

    spidge RAAF RESEARCHER Patron

    I had read this a while ago and although it does not favour any side of this argument it is in fact representative of much of the content of these posts.

    http://www.j-bradford-delong.net/movable_t...ves/000072.html

    It is a review of Ross Douthat - and Max Hastings' new book Armageddon in the Sunday Times by Brad De Long.

    Eg Stalin was critical that there were not more casualties at Normandy etc etc

    An example:

    the generals' failure to knock Germany out of the war in late 1944 reflected the kind of armies they led as much as their own deficiencies as leaders. The British and American armies were composed of citizen soldiers, who were usually prepared to do their duty but were also eager to survive. ''These were,'' Hastings writes, ''citizens of democracies, imbued since birth with all the inhibitions and decencies of their societies.'' Such peacetime virtues are not easily transformed into military effectiveness. James Gavin, whose airborne division was among the finest units in any army, filled his diary with harsh comments about the average soldier's military quality. ''If our infantry would fight,'' he wrote in January 1945, ''this war would be over by now.... Everybody wants to live to a ripe old age.'' When Winston Churchill complained to Montgomery about the British Army's lack of initiative, Montgomery replied by recalling the carnage on the Western Front during World War I: ''It was you, Prime Minister, who told me that we must not suffer casualties on the scale of the Somme.''

    By contrast, Armaggedon points out, the Soviets were prodigal with the lives of their soldiers -- and ended up in a much-better postwar position because of it. (my words.........is that true? read on......

    One does not know where to begin..................
     
  3. DengXiaoPing

    DengXiaoPing Discharged

    This is what hapens when people dont read their own links

    Plant pilot

    You should read your own links

    However, in the Winter War, the Soviets found out the hard way that the attack coupled with a "no retreat" policy is highly vulnerable to the motti countertactic, where the attacking party is surrounded and sieged.

    Winter war was before 1941 winter war was in 1940

    And you said WIKI was not corret if you use WIKI i may also use WIKI

    I have quted WIKI before but you refused to admit them
    But now when you qute WIKI everything is ok

    SO again i will qute WIKI

    The Eastern Front was unparalleled for its high intensity, ferocity, and brutality. The fighting involved millions of German and Soviet troops along a broad front. It was by far the deadliest single front in World War II, with over 4 million deaths on the Axis Forces, Soviet battle deaths were about 7 to 8 million, and civilian deaths were about 14 million. The genocidal death toll was attributed to several factors, including brutal mistreatment of POW's and captured partisans by both sides, multiple atrocities by the Germans against the civilian population, the wholesale use of weaponry on the battlefield against huge masses of infantry, and Joseph Stalin's draconian policies against supposed enemies. The multiple battles, and most of all, the use of scorched earth tactics employed first by the Soviets and afterwards by Germans destroyed agricultural land, infrastructure, and whole towns, leaving much of the population homeless and without food.

    Just look at the nummbers and remember that the Soviets lost 4.5 million in the first 6 months of the war so this means that the Soviets couldnt have used Human wave attacks against the nazies after 41 am i right

    IF YOU MAY QUTE WIKI SO MAY I!
    aLSO ANYONE MAY ENTER ANY INFORMATION THEY PLEASE ON WIKI SO TO SAY IT IS FACT IS NOT COMPLETELY TRUE

    THE REPORTS I QUTE TO ARE MUCH MORE RELIABLE
    BUT AGAIN IF YOU CAN QUTE WIKI SO CAN I!

    And angie who do you think wrote the papers i keep refering to
    One hint, his names sounds alot like Glantz ;)

    PLANT PILOT YOUR REFEERENCES ARE ALL UNCONTROLLED ATLEAST MINE ARE WRITTEN BY PEOPLE WHO STUDIED THE ARCHIVES YOURS ARE JUST WRITTEN BY ANYONE

    AND YOU WILL REGRET THE DAY YOU QUTED WIKI
    JUST READ ALL OF THIS FROM WIKI

    The Eastern Front was unparalleled for its high intensity, ferocity, and brutality. The fighting involved millions of German and Soviet troops along a broad front. It was by far the deadliest single front in World War II, with over 4 million deaths on the Axis Forces, Soviet battle deaths were about 7 to 8 million, and civilian deaths were about 14 million. The genocidal death toll was attributed to several factors, including brutal mistreatment of POW's and captured partisans by both sides, multiple atrocities by the Germans against the civilian population, the wholesale use of weaponry on the battlefield against huge masses of infantry, and Joseph Stalin's draconian policies against supposed enemies. The multiple battles, and most of all, the use of scorched earth tactics employed first by the Soviets and afterwards by Germans destroyed agricultural land, infrastructure, and whole towns, leaving much of the population homeless and without food.

    Soviet counter-attacks defeated them within sight of Moscow's spires, and a rout was only narrowly avoided. Some historians identify this as the "turning point" in the Allies' war against Germany; others identify the capitulation of the German Sixth Army outside Stalingrad (modern-day Volgograd) in 1943. The Continuation War between Finland and the Soviet Union began with Soviet air attacks shortly after the beginning of Operation Barbarossa, on 25 June, and ended with an armistice in 1944. The Soviet Union was joined in the war by the United Kingdom but not by the United States.


    PLANT PILOT YOU SHOULDNT HAVE QUTED WIKI

    The war on the Eastern Front went on for four bloody years. The death toll may never be established with any degree of reasonable certainty. Estimates of Soviet military deaths alone vary from roughly 8.5 million to as much as 15 million. Soviet civilian deaths remain under contention, though roughly 20 million is a frequently cited figure. German military deaths are also unclarified to a large extent. The highest and most recent estimate (RĂ¼diger Overmans) concluded that more than 3 million German servicemen lost their lives fighting against the Red Army, or in Soviet captivity. Stalin deported to labour camps Soviet soldiers who had surrendered, German POWs, and entire nations suspected of collaboration. The horrible losses in the Eastern Front were perhaps a major cause of the Cold War, as the war-ravaged Soviet Union kept tight control over much of Central and Eastern Europe, partly to discourage new potential invasions from the West.

    PLANT PILOT YOU SHOULDNT HAVE QUTED WIKI

    AND NEVER EVER SAY MY REFRENCES ARE WRONG WHEN YOU JUST QUTE ANY WEB PAGE THAT CAN BE PRINTE BY ANYONE

    THIS IF ANYTHING PROVES THAT YOU ARE THE SCHOOL CHILD

    PLANT PILOT YOU SHOULDNT HAVE QUTED WIKI

    The Red Army and other forces of the USSR inflicted about 80% of losses suffered by German land forces (Germany's strongest armed force comprised of the Heer and the Waffen-SS) in World War II or about 3 million soldiers.

    And your so called books are fiction books not fact books, was that the best you coulddo find fiction information i pitty you you know nothing at all there is a diffrence betwen fiction and fact books but you clearly dont see the diffrences I will no longer reply to anything you say because it is clear you dont have any clue what a novel and what a fact book is

    Please feel free to tell as many brits as you can of your so called facts- it will mean less compition on the job market for me
    The more school children as you the easier it is to keep once job ;)
    Havea nice life




    (spidge @ Oct 23 2005, 03:45 PM) [post=40481](DengXiaoPing @ Oct 23 2005, 09:42 PM) [post=40473]The only one who is a school child is you, and i must repeat myself because you never read more than maybe 1 or 2 words that i say[/b]

    </div><div class='quotemain'>And it would be so simple to prove me wrong just go to an University or milatery academy and ask them who did the most in stopping the euro axis[/b]


    Do you believe that the bombing of industrialised germany by the allied nations contributed on a very large scale to the inability of the Nazi war machine to function to it's fullest extent in the East?
    [/b]

    Ofcurse but it is nothing compared to what the soviets did
     
  4. Reverend Bob

    Reverend Bob Senior Member

    </div><div class='quotemain'>I will no longer reply to anything you say because it is clear you dont have any clue what a novel and what a fact book is Please feel free to tell as many brits as you can of your so called facts- it will mean less compition on the job market for me.[/b]


    Bye! Max/Ping
    Best of Luck on you First Job!!
     
  5. spidge

    spidge RAAF RESEARCHER Patron

    (DengXiaoPing @ Oct 24 2005, 12:55 AM) [post=40484]Do you believe that the bombing of industrialised germany by the allied nations contributed on a very large scale to the inability of the Nazi war machine to function to it's fullest extent in the East?
    [/b]
    </div><div class='quotemain'>
    Ofcurse but it is nothing compared to what the soviets did
    [/b]

    I was beginning to feel sorry for you in a way before this post of rhetoric and very childish behaviour. In the main on this forum you are dealing with adults. If my 12 year old daughter reacted like you with raves and rants I would send her to her room for a week.

    You really do need to grow up and start acting like an adult to participate in constructive debate with adults.

    The only vacancy for you in the job market I'm afraid, would be in a clinic as a patient.
     
  6. plant-pilot

    plant-pilot Senior Member

    I really think MaxPing has lost it. I take it all back. He's not a school child and I'm sorry I ever said it. You can talk sense to a school child.

    What you really have to ask is, if the Soviet Union, Russia or whatever is really so good, what's he doing in Sweden?
     
  7. Gnomey

    Gnomey World Travelling Doctor

    I have no idea. After that last rant their IP has been blocked so they have been effectively banned.
     
  8. jimbotosome

    jimbotosome Discharged

    MaxDeng is from Sweden? No wonder he idolizes cowards. I just thought he was Russian and wasn't smart enough to know the difference. Wasn't Sweden Hitler's lap dog in WWII? At least that would explain how he has access to a computer.

    If he is really gone, any bet on what his next moniker will be?
     
  9. morse1001

    morse1001 Very Senior Member

    </div><div class='quotemain'>If he is really gone, any bet on what his next moniker will be? [/b]

    His IP has been blocked, so he would have to changes isp as well.
     
  10. plant-pilot

    plant-pilot Senior Member

    (jimbotosome @ Oct 23 2005, 07:01 PM) [post=40505]MaxDeng is from Sweden? No wonder he idolizes cowards. I just thought he was Russian and wasn't smart enough to know the difference. Wasn't Sweden Hitler's lap dog in WWII? At least that would explain how he has access to a computer.

    If he is really gone, any bet on what his next moniker will be?
    [/b]

    He did write in one of his posts:-
    </div><div class='quotemain'>Sweden the country that i Live in also teaches the same thing and i Do Belive USA also does it but i am certain that you havent studied history in any University in any Country on earth[/b]

    Which would point to him being from Sweden.... although why he was so pro Soviet Union I haven't got a clue. :huh:
     
  11. Gnomey

    Gnomey World Travelling Doctor

    He is from Sweden. If you run a check on his IP (which I did) it say so.
     
  12. plant-pilot

    plant-pilot Senior Member

    (Gnomey @ Oct 23 2005, 07:12 PM) [post=40511]He is from Sweden. If you run a check on his IP (which I did) it say so.
    [/b]
    Ah, but it doesn't say he's Swedish though does it? :rolleyes:

    If his ISP has Dynamic DNS, he could be back with a new name before we know it o_O Or is the system cleverer than that? :closedeyes:
     
  13. Reverend Bob

    Reverend Bob Senior Member

    Plant-Pilot, That bloke won't be hard to spot in a crowd if he does.

    And a Big thumbs up to all who kept their cool during all those Bizzare rants!!


    Cheers
    Bob
     
  14. Gerard

    Gerard Seelow/Prora

    (jimbotosome @ Oct 21 2005, 10:44 PM) [post=40386]So you are saying there was some kind of pact between Czechoslovakia and Britain and France and therefore the exact same thing? Did Britain and France attack Czech too as Russia did Poland? I don't get this, but then again I have never been good at conditional ethics.[/b]

    Jimbo, here is a copy of an annex to the Munich Agreement of 1938 taken from the Yale University webiste. The Text, you will notice, guarantees the Borders of Czechoslovakia


    Annex to the Agreement
    His Majesty's Government in the United Kingdom and the French Government have entered into the above agreement on the basis that they stand by the offer, contained in paragraph 6 of the Anglo-French proposals of September 19th, relating to an international guarantee of the new boundaries of the Czechoslovak State against unprovoked aggression. When the question of the Polish and Hungarian minorities in Czechoslovakia has been settled, Germany and Italy for their part will give a guarantee to Czechoslovakia.
    Munich, September 29, 1938
    This was agreed in 1938 and in March 1939 the Wehrmacht marched into the rest of Czechoslovakia. Now you may criticise Russia for not helping Poland out, but the countries that you put forward as valiant defenders of all that is good also stand indicted for the accusation that you have levelled at the Soviets. At least the Soviets never signed an agreement!! Nothing to do with Conditional ethics, just plain facts.

    Incidentally I amn't glorifying Russia's actions here. I am however saying that not everything is as black and white as it should be.

    I dont agree with your assertion that Blitzkrieg is all about aircraft. Yes it is a very important element but the Tank is an important element too. This is an article explaining the concept:


    The Concept of Blitzkrieg.
    Airforce attacks enemy front-line and rear positions, main roads, airfields and communication centers. At the same time infantry attacks on the entire frontline (or at least at main places) and engages enemy. This restrains the enemy from knowing where the main force will attack and makes it impossible to prepare any defenses.

    Concentrated tank units breakthrough main lines of defense and advance deeper into enemy territory, while following mechanized units pursuit and engage defenders preventing them from establishing defensive postions. Infantry continues to engage enemy to misinform and keep enemy forces from withdrawing and establishing effective defense.

    Infantry and other support units attack enemy flanks in order to link up with other groups to complete the attack and eventually encircle the enemy and/or capture strategic position.

    Mechanized groups spearhead deeper into the enemy territory outflanking the enemy positions and paralyzing the rear preventing withdrawing troops and defenders from establishing effective defensive positions.

    Main force links up with other units encircling and cutting off the enemy.

    As you can see, there is more to it than just Stukas diving out of the sky. Indeed the origins of Blitzkrieg dates back to the Stormtuppen tactics originally devised for the German Offensives of 1918. Aircraft had no real presence back then ,especially in a ground attack role.

    And as for your assertion that Russia was literally back in the 1800's as a nation, well you do a grave dishonor to the nation that built the T-34, which essentially was the first Main Battle Tank at a time when the US could only design tanks like the Sherman, Stuart or the Grant. and its Attack aircraft the IL-2 was an ingenious piece of engineering ensuring excellent attack capabilities whilst wielding armor around the cockpit to help increase pilot protection, and it was an inspiration for the A-10 by the US.
     
  15. laufer

    laufer Senior Member

    (plant-pilot @ Oct 23 2005, 07:07 PM) [post=40509](jimbotosome @ Oct 23 2005, 07:01 PM) [post=40505]MaxDeng is from Sweden? No wonder he idolizes cowards. I just thought he was Russian and wasn't smart enough to know the difference. Wasn't Sweden Hitler's lap dog in WWII? At least that would explain how he has access to a computer.

    If he is really gone, any bet on what his next moniker will be?
    [/b]

    He did write in one of his posts:-
    </div><div class='quotemain'>Sweden the country that i Live in also teaches the same thing and i Do Belive USA also does it but i am certain that you havent studied history in any University in any Country on earth[/b]

    Which would point to him being from Sweden.... although why he was so pro Soviet Union I haven't got a clue. :huh:
    [/b]
    There were a few Swedes in 11th SS "Nordland" Volunteer Division . images/smilies/default/cool.gif
     
  16. angie999

    angie999 Very Senior Member

    <span style="color:#006600">Folks, let us drop this Sweden thing right now. Where members live is not the issue, but what they write may be. Can all members please ensure that they observe rule 1 of the board guidelines at all times. Thanks.</span>
     
  17. Lt. Winters

    Lt. Winters Member

    Guys, Can we please not use the terminology "we cicked there but" as I have ancestors who fought and lost there lives in this war, They fought for there country and to have people say "They got creamed" does not appeal to me. Common guys im 12 and I have more respect for the soilders then some of you.
     
  18. spidge

    spidge RAAF RESEARCHER Patron

    (Lt. Winters @ Dec 16 2005, 03:17 PM) [post=43210]Guys, Can we please not use the terminology "we cicked there but" as I have ancestors who fought and lost there lives in this war, They fought for there country and to have people say "They got creamed" does not appeal to me. Common guys im 12 and I have more respect for the soilders then some of you.
    [/b]

    Don't worry Lt Winters

    DengXiaoPing and Maxping we believe were one and the same "Flamer" going by his IP address and was moderated (expelled) out of the forum fairly quickly.


    Regards

    Geoff
     
  19. Exxley

    Exxley Senior Member

    I wonder where he got that 1,1 million KIA for the Japanese...

    Usual estimates place Japanese losses around 83,000 KIA.
     
  20. spidge

    spidge RAAF RESEARCHER Patron

    (Exxley @ Dec 17 2005, 01:56 AM) [post=43223]I wonder where he got that 1,1 million KIA for the Japanese...

    Usual estimates place Japanese losses around 83,000 KIA.
    [/b]

    I hope you do not receve a answer to that question.

    Our friend was a craaaaaaaaaaazy man.
     

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