Thomas Jennings merchant Navy ww2

Discussion in 'Searching for Someone & Military Genealogy' started by James Harvey, Oct 9, 2016.

  1. James Harvey

    James Harvey Senior Member

    hi all I am trying to research one of my groups. He served ww1 and 2.

    I have the following records

    MN bt files from 1918-1945. Which have photo and list of ships in code from fmp
    MN ww1 medal application from fmp
    Ww2 MN medal roll from documents online


    Are there any other resource out there. Someone once mentioned a seaman pouch at tna, what is in this and does anyone know of a cheap researcher?

    Regards

    James
     
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  2. Peter Clare

    Peter Clare Very Senior Member

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  3. James Harvey

    James Harvey Senior Member

    Thankyou, tried searching for his seaman pouch but got no results? Same for his crs 10
     
  4. Hugh MacLean

    Hugh MacLean Senior Member

    Hi James,
    Some of the records are not held online. Many seamens pouches were destroyed circa 1969. If you can give a date and place of birth for him it will help me point you to his CRS 10 and anything else out there.
    The pouch can be described as a safety deposit box of documents. Some contain a lot of detail but others virtually nothing. If he served prior to 1941 then there may be a CR2 card similar to whats on FMP which details ships by official number, not name. There is usually an ID mugshot photo similar to the CR10 card from FMP - this will be more up to date as the CR10 covers the early period from 1918-1921.

    Lee Richards (PsyWar.Org) on here does my MN copying for me. No complaints and an excellent service as far as I am concerned.

    If you don't have dates and place of birth can you give me his discharge number which maybe you have from the other records collected.
    Regards
    Hugh
     
    Last edited: Oct 9, 2016
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  5. James Harvey

    James Harvey Senior Member

    Hugh

    When I get home I will dig out what I've got so far.
     
  6. James Harvey

    James Harvey Senior Member

    He was born 1887. I think Liverpool.
     
  7. Tricky Dicky

    Tricky Dicky Don'tre member

    Medal Card of Jennings, Thomas Place of Birth: Liverpool Date of Birth: 1887
    Medal Card of Jennings, Thomas Place of Birth: Liverpool Date of Birth: 1887 | The National Archives
    Thomas Jennings in the Web: UK, Campaign Medals Awarded to WWI Merchant Seamen, 1914-1925
    Name: Thomas Jennings
    Birth Date: 1887
    Birth Place: Liverpool
    Year Issued: 1914-1925


    Medal listing of Jennings, Thomas Discharge number: 603089 Date of Birth: ...
    Medal listing of Jennings, Thomas Discharge number: 603089 Date of Birth: ... | The National Archives
    Thomas Jennings in the Web: UK, WWII Medals Issued to Merchant Seamen, 1939-1945
    Name: Thomas Jennings
    Birth Date: 15 Oct 1887
    Service: 1939-1945
    Medal Issued/Claimed: 1946-2002
    Discharge Number: 603089


    Thomas Jennings in the Liverpool, England, Crew Lists 1861-1919
    Name: Thomas Jennings
    Age: 23
    Birth Year: abt 1887
    Birth Place: Shorncliffe
    Event Date: 1910
    Port of Registry: Liverpool, Lancashire, England
    Ship Name: Oronsa
    Official Number: 123986
    Reference Number: 387CRE/647

    TD
     
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  8. Hugh MacLean

    Hugh MacLean Senior Member

    Sadly he has no surviving seaman's pouch - this is as I have said earlier not unusual.
    His CRS 10 (service record from Jan, 1941) should be held at Kew in piece BT 382/878. This document should, if it has survived, give a list of all his ships including dates of engagement/discharge. This is expensive and difficult to obtain online. The file is held in surname block order up to 60 other names so best obtained by visit to Kew or via a researcher. Hope that helps.

    ps I added a piece on my previous post regarding your qurestion about the contents of the seaman's pouch

    Regards
    Hugh
     
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  9. James Harvey

    James Harvey Senior Member

    Thanks Hugh and TD. Next time I visit Kew I will take a look.
     
  10. James Harvey

    James Harvey Senior Member

    TD the last entry is the wrong man as date of birth, place of birth and official number is wrong

    Thanks for your help so far

    Regards

    James
     
  11. James Harvey

    James Harvey Senior Member

    I believe I have found his seaman pouch online as his discharge number is wrongly transcribed as 603059 and birth year as 1884 not 1887

    Not the first time this has happened

    Is there a way of accessing it?
     
  12. Hugh MacLean

    Hugh MacLean Senior Member

    Very common in MN records James.

    The file you have found is almost certainly his but it is not his Seaman's Pouch but his COMNO [Combined Office Merchant Navy Operations] Pouch. Those seamen who served at Normandy, 'D' Day and beyond had some records held in this pouch for special operations. The pouch will probably only have documents concerned with the ship he served on.
    As it is to a named person you could obtain the file online for a cost of £8.24 [minimum] - Lee or Andy would copy cheaper than that.

    If you hit the link and then follow the process to request a copy they will send you a quote which you can accept or not but if it were me I would not be ordering it from their service.

    Name: Jennings Thomas. Service Number: 603059. Date of Birth: 15/10/1884. | The National Archives

    You mention the ships in the other cards you have - have you managed to decode the names or would you like me to do it for you?

    Regards
    Hugh
     
    Last edited: Feb 16, 2017
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  13. James Harvey

    James Harvey Senior Member

    Thanks Hugh

    Will try and contact Lee to see if he can copy both files.

    Regards

    Will did out the ship numbers
     
  14. Hugh MacLean

    Hugh MacLean Senior Member

    It is ok James I have the info to hand I will transcribe it up for you shortly.

    Regards
    Hugh
     
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  15. Hugh MacLean

    Hugh MacLean Senior Member

    James,

    Details from various sources of service I can find for Thomas Jennings b. Liverpool 1887.
    Ship's Cook [Cert 3032], Discharge Book Number 603089 [despite various typos that is the correct one]

    120820 - TELAMON –

    131312 – ASCANIUS – 18.2.1915 [previous ship TELAMON]

    147194 – PERSEUS – 19.7.1923

    131435 – DEMODOCUS – 13.9.1924

    113395 – AJAX – 16.1.1926

    137410 – PYRRHUS – 4.11.1927

    120918 – TEUCER – 5.11.1928

    131363 – RHESUS – 20.8.1930

    131363 – RHESUS – 26.5.1933

    137410 – PYRRHUS – 18.11.1933

    137410 – PYRRHUS - 19.3.1934

    161124 – AGAMEMNON – 7.4.1934

    128014 – PROTESILAUS – 22.7.1937

    143640 – ACHILLES – 11.8.1939

    145969 – PHILOCTETES – 24.7.1940

    145974 – MERIONES – 14.1.1941

    131312 – ASCANIUS – 5.2.1941

    147307 – ASCANIA – 25.10.1952

    I also have him on EMPIRE CHAPMAN in 1943 and AQUITANIA in 1944/5

    From my experience with records he will have served in more voyages and more ships than is listed here. For a full WW2 list get his CRS 10 from Kew. Most, but not all, of those ships listed belonged to Alfred Holt’s Blue Funnel Line.


    Regards

    Hugh
     
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  16. James Harvey

    James Harvey Senior Member

    Thanks Hugh
     
  17. James Harvey

    James Harvey Senior Member

    Hugh

    Can you tell me any more about the above ships or a resource to find out more

    He was also on

    Ascanius 131312 to 6.9.42
    Gleniffer 139052 18.9.42-227.43
    Empire chapman 168514 25.8.43-27.11.43
    Mv Ajax 162340 8.1.44-4.2.44
    Menelaus 147235 1.4.44-28.4.44
    Empire capulet 169050 25.5.44 -29.7.44
    MNRP 8.8.44
    Acquitania 135583 15.8.44-5.9.45

    He was awarded 1939-45 star. Atlantic star France and Germany clasp Burma star war medal

    Any help greatly appreciated
     
  18. James Harvey

    James Harvey Senior Member

    His full group
     

    Attached Files:

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  19. Hugh MacLean

    Hugh MacLean Senior Member

    Hi James,
    There are a few things you can do to research each of the ships. Check convoyweb for their movements also movement cards from Kew.
    ASCANIUS and ACQUITANIA being troopships, the others being Blue Funnel or Glen Line ships. MNRP is the Merchant Navy Reserve Pool.
    Each of those ships will, if they have survived, have an official logbook which includes a crew agreement (list of the crew). It depends how deep you wish to go.
    There is a seaman who was aboard EMPIRE CAPULET in 1944 or 45 on the Ship's Nostalgia site, sadly we have only just found out that he is losing his sight and can no longer post on the internet.
    If you need any specifics let me know.

    Regards
    Hugh
     
  20. James Harvey

    James Harvey Senior Member

    Thank Hugh

    I will take a look at convoyweb. I'm new to researching merchant navy as RN is my main focus
     

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