TRE Civilian Casualty

Discussion in 'Non-Commemorated War Dead' started by Marks, Mar 7, 2012.

  1. Marks

    Marks Senior Member


    Looking for some help, with a civilian casualty.

    21/11/1941 Wellington T2552 109 Sqn crashed near Oakington on a training flight. According to the book (Beam Bombers ?) Six crew died and three passengers.

    One of the passengers was a member of the Telecommunications Research Establishment a scientist working at Oakington George G.B SAMSON Age 33. Listed as died Cambridge (GRO)

    I can't find him listed CWGC, as a civilian war death shouldn't he be listed ?


  2. Peter Clare

    Peter Clare Very Senior Member


    No passengers listed for the loss details in BCL Vol.2. The six crew are listed.
    Do you require more details?

  3. chrisharley9

    chrisharley9 Senior Member


    am asking some questions on your behalf

  4. wowtank

    wowtank Very Senior Member

    The Death certificate might be a Cambridge Registry office. The GRO should have it as well.
  5. Marks

    Marks Senior Member


    The three passengers are not mentioned in Chorley BCL2 1941. Two of them were RAF men from 7 Sqn, they are both listed in BCL9 ROH :-

    1181737 SGT RONALD GEORGE ARCHER (Died Cambridge 3b Age 26)
    570227 SGT ADAM (Alan?) GRANT (Died Cambridge 3b Age 20)

    Now Sgt GRANT is listed in BCL2 as DOW 21/11/41 injured in the crash of Stirling N6087 on the 18-11-41 Oakington ?

    Thanks again

  6. chrisharley9

    chrisharley9 Senior Member

    Hi Mark

    As he was killed in a military aircraft crash then a case may be made for CWGC commemoration as civilian war dead; are you prepared to purchase the DC

  7. Marks

    Marks Senior Member


    Simply put no

  8. chrisharley9

    chrisharley9 Senior Member

    Fair enough Mark I will take the case on myself

  9. Marks

    Marks Senior Member

    Hi Chris,

    Maybe two other civilian war deaths, two Meteorolgists serving with Bomber Command listed in Chorley BCL and ROH

    Mr Glynn HALFORD 17.1.42 27 OTU Anson N5030 Crash Isle of Man

    Mr Kenneth T TAGG Age 18 18.7.42 18 Sqn Blenheim Z7304 Crash Norwich

  10. chrisharley9

    chrisharley9 Senior Member


    I will follow up on these in due course

  11. Pete Wood

    Pete Wood Member

    Glynn Halford is listed, with the CWGC, as Halford Glynn - the names have been reversed.
  12. chrisharley9

    chrisharley9 Senior Member

    Thanks very much for that Pete
  13. Pete Wood

    Pete Wood Member

    I have the following in my civilian war deaths database:

    George Gavin Samson, Wireless Operator. New Zealand subject aged 34. Of 53 Manor Court, Friern Barnett. Died in Aeroplane Crash, near Oakington, on 21/11/1941

    I sourced this information from the original Cambridgeshire Civil Defence records, some 15 years ago. This info was sent to the IWGC.

    This is from memory, but I am fairly sure he was married and had a child (in the UK).
    CL1 likes this.
  14. chrisharley9

    chrisharley9 Senior Member

    CivilianSAMSEN, T R
    Died 21/11/1941

    Civilian War Dead

    near Oakington.

    Samson was already listed in CWGC. Details will be amended.
  15. harkness

    harkness Well-Known Member

    33 Selborne Road, Southgate M.B., Middlesex
    Matthew Palmer 25 Jun 1881 Machine Tool Maker Re
    Mary E Palmer 24 May 1884 Unpaid Dd
    Lilian E M Palmer 16 Jun 1906 Unpaid Dd
    Eric O Willoughby 07 Aug 1907 Radio Engineer
    Neil D Clotworthy 15 Jul 1917 Radio Engineer - Devel
    George G B Samson 16 Jan 1907 Radio Engineer - Devel

    (Parts of the original image are illegible)
    jonheyworth and chrisharley9 like this.
  16. harkness

    harkness Well-Known Member

    I should have added that all three Radio Engineers were single.

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