Whilst researching one of my Widnes Casualties, I have come across a case of two complete crews being buried in a single collective grave. Whilst it is not uncommon for a whole crew to be buried together, I have never come across a case where two crews are buried together. The crews in question are: Halifax JB968 Information Type Halifax Serial Number JB968 Squadron 428 X1D NA-R Operation Hannover Date 27th September 1943 / 28th September 1943 Further Information Airborne 1921 27Sep43 from Middleton St.George. Cause of loss and crash-site not established. (Confirmed German report that aircraft hit by Flak whilst under attack from a night Fighter) All are buried in the Hannover War Cemetery. F/O R.H.Sherback RCAF KIA - Coll. grave 3. D. 7-10. Sgt D.B.Stone RCAF KIA - Coll. grave 3. D. 7-10. F/O F.T.Manners RCAF KIA - Coll. grave 3. D. 7-10. P/O E.D.MacMurchy RCAF KIA - Coll. grave 3. D. 7-10. Sgt J.Kirby KIA - Coll. grave 3. D. 7-10. Sgt D.W.Matthews RCAF KIA - Coll. grave 3. D. 7-10. Sgt W.E.McKee RCAF KIA - Coll. grave 3. D. 7-10. and Stirling EE940 Information Type: Stirling Serial Number: EE940 Squadron: 15 X1D LS-Y Operation: Hannover Date 27th September 1943 / 28th September 1943 Further Information Airborne 1944 27 Sep 43 from Mildenhall.Cause of loss not established. Crashed at Ronnenberg, 11 km SW of Hannover. All were initially buried in Ronnenberg. Their graves are now located in the Hannover War Cemetery. F/S J.H.Benny KIA - Coll. grave 3. D. 7-10. Sgt D.B.Bowen KIA - Coll. grave 3. D. 7-10. Sgt R.A.Cordell KIA - Coll. grave 3. D. 7-10. Sgt S.J.Jordan KIA - Coll. grave 3. D. 7-10. Sgt R.M.Coles KIA - Coll. grave 3. D. 7-10. Sgt S.G.Gibbs KIA - Coll. grave 3. D. 7-10. Sgt D.H.Hendry KIA - Coll. grave 3. D. 7-10. Both crews where originally buried near the crash sites in Ronnenberg Cemetery, but where later interred in Hanover War Cemetery, where they where all laid to rest together.
Phil, interesting post. Whilst I have seen many tank and aircraft crews interred in single graves I too have never seen 'multiples' such as this. Do you have a picture of this headstone or could anyone provide it? I haven't searched CWGC for this as yet.
Phil, interesting post. Whilst I have seen many tank and aircraft crews interred in single graves I too have never seen 'multiples' such as this. Do you have a picture of this headstone or could anyone provide it? I haven't searched CWGC for this as yet. Hi Mike, yes I have photo of the grave. Each headstone has two names recorded on it. .JPG] This headstone shows James Kirby from 428 RCAF squadron and Sgt Jordon from 15 Sqn. .JPG]
Hi Phil, No Aussies included so no info from me for the reason however it must have been a bloodbath that night. There were (13) Aussies in (7) different squadron aircraft killed and buried in Hanover cemetery that night. Cheers Geoff
Postwar exhumation required the highest discipline to ensure remains were transferred correctly and identities were not lost or mistaken. I cannot see any reason why the graves of the the two crews should have been amalgamated if this discipline had been maintained.But is this a case of crew remains transferred in the configuration as they were originally buried because of their condition on being recovered from an aircraft. On the other hand, for a casualty to be buried with a named tombstone,there has to be an casualty identification process.The accuracy depends on the standards employed when the casualties were initially buried in 1943.
Study the Mathematics. The CWGC say that the 13 crew members of JB968 Halifax and EE940 Stirling were reburied - AS YOU SAY - in graves 3D 7-10 at Hanover War Cemetery in January 1947 BUT Phil says there were 2 names per headstone. This cannot be. Our research proves the CWGC made a BIG mistake with the assumption that the two crews were buried in graves 3D 7-10. They were not. More about this soon. The two aircraft were allowed to burn for 4 days. The remains were like ashes. RAF interviewed 20 witnesses. They said “ Remains would fit into a small box.” There were no coffins involved. coffins 7/8 were only provided on the 19 October 1943 for my FATHER and his crew. This is a big ongoing story.i will inform you of the outcome soon. You are 100% right. It depends on the a quality of the reporting and quality and accuracy of the exhumation or report. In the case of the Halifax and Stirling it was abysmal - mistake after mistake repeated over 78 years until NOW we know the truth. The 2 crews were buried at Hanover War Cemetery but in other coffins and other graves.
Yes we had all these reports in 2016. Parts we have now proved are re wrong. We have a 335 show about the 4 aircraft involved. We have an embargo on the Cases. We are awaiting acceptance of our evidence before any Final Conclusion. Rest assured all 4 Crews are buried at Hanover War Cemetery. Good night.
Hello Raymond, I will not speak for Harry. His posts say it all. I have been a member of this forum for 13 plus years. A glance at some of my posts will show you they are mostly Bomber Command related. If I see a post I feel I can add to, usually with parts of ancestry's RCAF KIA service files, then I do. I wish you well with your efforts. This thread reminded me of two posts on this forum over the years. One pertained to three men from a crew buried as five men; the second pertains to efforts undertaken by myself and several others to have an "Known unto God" grave opened at Hannover and the remains DNA-tested. CWGC flat out refused and maintain that edict today What did the RCAF service file of survivor J18230 P/O Lester David Cromb say about this crash? Regards, Dave
This is a forum where there are experts and others who try to add info and research info about anything WW2 or anything that is of general interest
Thank you Dave. Yes the CWGC do not like exhumations. They do make lots of mistakes. They have rejected our Case 5 times and we have proved them wron. We are lucky.We have a great German Researcher and friend in HANOVER. THE INTERNATIONAL RED CROSS GENEVA and Kew National Archives are very helpful.
