Unsere Mütter, unsere Väter - Generation War

Discussion in 'Books, Films, TV, Radio' started by At Home Dad (Returning), Mar 21, 2013.

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  1. CL1

    CL1 116th LAA and 92nd (Loyals) LAA,Royal Artillery

    still on episode one but it looks good
     
  2. Ron Goldstein

    Ron Goldstein WW2 Veteran WW2 Veteran

    Having now seen all the three episodes that make up Unsere Mutte, Unsere Vater and (as previously threatened) I'd like to offer my own views of this much publicised film.

    Firstly, for the benefit of those who are completely new to the concept of the film and who would merely like to know what it's all about may I recommend Wikipedia http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Generation_War.

    Likewise, if you want to know the cast etc,, then IMDB at
    http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1883092/ will provide the answers

    Some might think that as a British Jew I was was completely divorced from the suffering experienced by fellow Jews who were unfortunate enough to be living in Germany in the late '30s.

    Completely true, of course, but it didn't mean that I was unaware of the perils of being Jewish in Nazi Germany or that I was in any way indifferent to the sufferings of those who were trapped inside the country once Hitler's 3rd Reich had come to fruition.

    I do confess, however, that I have always been puzzled as to how the ordinary German man in the street regarded the ethos of Nazi Germany and thought perhaps that after seeing the film all would would be revealed.

    Was this then my experience ?

    Not so, I'm afraid, although, as I will go on to explain, there were episodes in the film that certainly matched my own experience.

    The main character, Lt.Wilhem Winter, played very convincingly by Volker Bruch, came nearest to answering my queries and his ethos can be summed up by the film suggesting that it was simply a matter of indifference as initially he joined up to please his right-wing father.

    I shall remember his character mainly because of one scene in particular which rang true for me because it strongly mirrored an experience of my own whilst guarding POW's in Austria in late '45

    I told the whole story on the BBC People's War Archives
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/history/ww2peopleswar/stories/13/a2039113.shtml but the salient point is here:
    The Jewish character in the film, aptly named Goldstein, was also, in my opinion, beautifully played and was to remind me vividly of something that I had previously read.

    One of my wife's cousins, was married to an ex Jewish, Polish partisan and I told his story here:
    http://ww2talk.com/forums/topic/12923-jewish-partisans-another-then-now-story/

    Florian Mayevski also had to conceal his own Jewish roots from his fellow partisans because of their own innate hatred of the Jews.

    I have recorded the series and when I have time will watch it back to back.

    If you haven't seen it yourself catch up with it and perhaps let us know your own thoughts ?

    Ron
     
  3. Owen

    Owen -- --- -.. MOD

    Just watched episode 3 on iPlayer, am now thoroughly depressed.

    Well done to the Germans for making a prime time TV prog about their history.
     
  4. Ron Goldstein

    Ron Goldstein WW2 Veteran WW2 Veteran

    Owen

    Forgot to mention the program that followed immediately after the final episode entitled "Generation War: Fact and Fiction"

    This deals, together with other things, the protests of the Polish authorities complaining that they were unfairly shown as being nationally anti-semitic.

    Worth recording as a vital extra to the film itself.

    Ron
     
  5. BG2012

    BG2012 Member

    I have watched the last episode today and not having any experience or a great knowledge for the history facts. As a programme I found it well made and the story links with all 5 friends also glad it was all in German.

    I recorded the Fact and Fiction show with Martha Kearney and the producer of the programe. I am now watching it and thinking how difficult it must be to make any programe like this.
     
  6. von Poop

    von Poop Adaministrator Admin

    Finally put aside Game of Thrones' latest and watched the first episode.

    Really rather good.
    What a shit hand to be dealt - coming to adulthood in 1930-40s Germany...
    Some could obviously have played it better, but on the whole - shitness all around. from the craven to the brave, the innocent to the culpable. I still know who I blame, really. Him and his mob did ultimately crap on their own almost as much as they crapped on others.

    We are nerds, so we can pick the odd tiny hole, but overall the accuracy, scene-setting and 'feel' seemed very good.

    Let me guess... everyone's going to die before it's out... (don't tell me - I hate spoilers).

    And on the characters being called 'Goldstein'? Oh yeah, that raised a slight 'Phoooph...' in this house :unsure:



    Also - the other half sat through it - which is always indicative of something being a little above the standard 'war film'.
     
  7. Ron Goldstein

    Ron Goldstein WW2 Veteran WW2 Veteran

    A

    No spoilers from me, other than commenting that you obviously did know that the Germans were to lose the war in 1945 ?

    Watch the whole film, painful as it is.

    When you have, come back here again to pass comment and I will in return offer my own final thoughts on this memrable saga.

    Ron
     
  8. von Poop

    von Poop Adaministrator Admin

  9. hidip

    hidip hidip

    Watched this via Netflix with subtitles, watched all three episodes back to back, fascinating, really enjoyed it, well done to the producers, this film really showed the war from a different prospective for me, didn't make any excuses, "we started off as heroes and ended up as arseholes" thought this film was impressive, could easily watch this again.
     
  10. TriciaF

    TriciaF Junior Member

  11. Lindele

    Lindele formerly HA96

  12. Smudger Jnr

    Smudger Jnr Our Man in Berlin

    Stefen,

    You never know, perhaps more Awards will be forthcoming.

    Regards
    Tom
     
  13. Ramiles

    Ramiles Researching 9th Lancers, 24th L and SRY

    I can remember watching this a while ago on what I at first thought was BBC4 - actually it appears to have been on BBC2 (which is quite unusual these days for the Beeb, to put a foreign language miniseries on 2 rather than on 4). I think I thought at the time that it was quite well produced but drama, not really history. So it was interesting to read through all of the comments above.

    Just reading the wiki page:
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Generation_War

    I hadn't realised that it was quite so controversial abroad though:
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Generation_War#Reception

    3 episodes is probably too little to do justice to the broader story that people want to be told, though I don't know what kind of reception it would have had if it had gone all out to try to tell answers to all the "troublesome questions" that some are saying that they would have liked it to better address.

    I wonder though if it couldn't have succeeded better as a collaborative effort i.e. with a mix of countries of origin having input in its production rather than just the one. If they were originally aiming to market it internationally, from the comments I've so far seen they appear to have had their domestic market perhaps too much in mind in the stories that they chose to tell and hadn't really put enough thought into how it would appear in some of the countries that they sold it to.

    Perhaps if they had a few foreign partners involved, perhaps Polish TV and even the Beeb they could have made more than just these few episodes. Interesting to to read in: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Generation_War#Production
    That originally "Originally, Viktor was to escape to France and finally to return as a regular soldier with the US army. This part of the script was changed to a solution which could be produced on already available locations." Why US army? - he could have joined the British army for example perhaps?
     
  14. Over Here

    Over Here Junior Member

    Revisionism is well under way in regard to WWI in Germany, expect WWII to follow shortly. Only natural, those who experienced the war are passing away and a nation cannot endure a sense of collective guilt for ever, it is incompatible with a strong sense of identity and success such as Germany possesses. Rightfully so in the post-war sense, one might add
     
  15. von Poop

    von Poop Adaministrator Admin

    Have you watched it, Over here?
    Not really a revisionist piece.
     
  16. Over Here

    Over Here Junior Member

    I have not, plenty of documentaries I should watch before watching a historical sitcom. German girl sleeps with officer to save Jewish boyfriend? A very common and plausible scenario you would agree? Why would said officer content himself with one go round when he could have made it regular fixture? Nur in Stechpalmewald. :lol:

    It's revisionism in the same sense as "Das Boot": an attempt to show themselves as anti-nazi heroes doing a tough job etc. Nothing I've seen or read of the U-Boat war suggests this was the case, ever. And because some men had a distaste for nazism did not mean they didn't want their nazi governed nation to win. Those who took the step from anti-nazism to recognizing that Germany would have to be defeated to destroy it and then took positive steps to assist that, were few and far between.
     
  17. von Poop

    von Poop Adaministrator Admin

    Well worth watching before coming to any conclusions I'd have thought... I'm funny like that.

    If it is revisionism (not always a bad thing, but that's a big subject), it's of a sort that pulls no punches about that regime & the choices, for good or ill, made by (and imposed upon) it's citizens.
    It's also excellent drama.
     
    dbf likes this.
  18. Ron Goldstein

    Ron Goldstein WW2 Veteran WW2 Veteran

    Just noticed the revival of this thread and it set me thinking about the amazing story of Florian Mayevski.

    http://ww2talk.com/forums/topic/12923-jewish-partisans-another-then-now-story/

    I own signed copies of the book but went back to AMAZON to see if it was available on KINDLE.

    No joy there, but I see that used copies are available at only 1 penny,

    Treat yourself to a copy of this amazing true story !

    Ron
     

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