I've recently read an excellent book on the battle for Wake Island entitled Given Up For Dead by Bill Sloan. The book recounts some criticism of Cmdr. Cunningham (the island's senior officer) and his order to surrender on 23 Dec. while some of the Marines, sailors and civilian fighters were still gaining ground against the Japanese. What are your thoughts? I am of the opinion that while Cunningham may not have been the ablest of field commanders, his call for surrender was a realistic reaction to the inevitable outcome, based on all the information available to him at the time. What think you?
First of all I shall state that I am not familiar but am about to read up on it and if anyone else wishes to, this seems a good website: http://www.ibiblio.org/hyperwar/USMC/USMC-M-Wake.html
There are several books out on Wake now, including Hell Wouldn't Stop, Pacific Alamo, and a huge third one whose name logically escapes me, which discuss the surrender decision in detail. Cunningham was in a tough position...his men were holding on and had supplies, but he knew the relief expedition had been cancelled, and Wake was on its own. The end was a foregone conclusion, and I don't think he had much choice.
Originally posted by HEKE@Mar 4 2005, 01:12 PM They were either shot or taken to the prison/work camps. At least i think this is how it went. [post=31928]Quoted post[/post] The third book is called "Facing Fearful Odds." The guy who wrote it is now writing a follow-up book on the Wake Island POWs' experience. It was pretty horrific. A few were beheaded on the ship going to China. The rest went to a POW camp near Shanghai, where they suffered the same torture and starvation all the other POWs faced, for three years. Their high morale on capture (they had been beating their opponents), strong discipline, and relative good condition on capture (as opposed to the starving Bataan POWs), enabled them to withstand the rigors very well. They were moved to Japan in 1944 to serve as slave labor when the Empire was running out of workers, and were liberated there in 1945. Pacific Alamo and Hell Wouldn't Stop has a lot on the Wake POW experience.
To answer Prefab's question, I'd like to add to what Kiwiwriter has posted: (which was all spot on as usual) All of the military personnel and many of the civilians on the island were shipped back west aboard converted passenger ships. The wounded unable to be transported were treated with some compassion (by Japanese standards) and shipped to the prison camps later. Most of the prisoners were indeed taken to the prison camp near Shanghai, however a few were detained on the Home Islands for interrogation in preparation for the Midway assault. As for the cilivians who were left on the island, as food ran out, the Japanese commander of the island had them taken out to the north beach of Wake proper and shot, in a brutal attempt to alleviate the drain on rations. Some of those shipped west were beheaded, for breaking the "rules" aboard ship. All of them (even officers) were forced to run the gauntlet of slaps & punches as they boarded the ship and at various times after. Those who did make it to the Shanghai prison camp did fare somewhat better than those in other prison camps. In addition to the reasons already stated, the climate was not as tropical as other camps, therefore disease was less of a problem. And Kiwiwriter, thanks for the names of those books, I'll have to look into those!
Originally posted by nolanbuc@Mar 4 2005, 03:50 AM I am of the opinion that while Cunningham may not have been the ablest of field commanders, his call for surrender was a realistic reaction to the inevitable outcome, based on all the information available to him at the time. [post=31912]Quoted post[/post] The 400 or so defenders at wake were proud, strong marines. They gave Japan its biggest naval humiliation, a good 500 japanese troops were lost in the first wave of assault due to the marines' vigorous and steadfast defense. As a Japanese vice-admiral later recollected, wake dealt a strong blow to other japanese officials present that their foes were not as easy to beat as the opponents in China.
Originally posted by ryobreak@Jun 20 2005, 07:19 PM The 400 or so defenders at wake were proud, strong marines. They gave Japan its biggest naval humiliation, a good 500 japanese troops were lost in the first wave of assault due to the marines' vigorous and steadfast defense. As a Japanese vice-admiral later recollected, wake dealt a strong blow to other japanese officials present that their foes were not as easy to beat as the opponents in China. [post=35563]Quoted post[/post] Excellent post, very well said.
The full story of the defence of Wake Island was not revealed until the survivors were debriefed when they were liberated in September 1945. They were very surprised to learn that Paramount Pictures had immediately gone into production and made an epic film of the fall of Wake Island showing them all falling in the line of duty.It must have been very disturbing for their next of kin. A documentary shown recently shows Marine Corps veterans returning to the island as the documentary reveals the detailed account of the gallant attempt to hold on until the relief taskforce arrives. There was one interesting feature regarding the transfer of POWs to China.While being transported to the interior,two escaped from the sealed railway waggons,one of the pair fractured a leg while jumping but survived after receiving Japanese medical treament on his recapture. (a most unusual gesture by the Japanese).The other had an interesting tale to tell.On escaping,he was helped by communist partisans.After all those years he had an historical photograph to show of him and a Chinese individual taken on his leaving to join Allied forces in China. The Chinese communist was no other than the later Chairman Mao, the then Mao Tse-tung. Wake Island also features in the annals of code breaking.While the Americans were working on breaking the Japanese Navy codes, they were almost sure they were on the verge of success.They decided to draw out Japanese Navy radio traffic to prove their assumptions.They decided to use "Wake Island" as a test piece so they baited the line and the Japanese took it "hook line and sinker".A simple deception,the Americans transmitted in plain language,"Wake Island is running out of water"(it was not) and waited. The bait was taken when the Japanese Navy passed on the message in code to their interested units"Wake Island is running out of water".The Americans then had confirmation of the success of their code breaking. Whether this code was the same that was broken and led to the shooting down by Guadacanal based P38s of Admiral Yamamoto's aircraft while he was on his way to visit Shortland seaplane base, I am not sure.
Originally posted by Harry Ree@Jun 21 2005, 08:37 AM Wake Island also features in the annals of code breaking.While the Americans were working on breaking the Japanese Navy codes, they were almost sure they were on the verge of success.They decided to draw out Japanese Navy radio traffic to prove their assumptions.They decided to use "Wake Island" as a test piece so they baited the line and the Japanese took it "hook line and sinker".A simple deception,the Americans transmitted in plain language,"Wake Island is running out of water"(it was not) and waited. The bait was taken when the Japanese Navy passed on the message in code to their interested units"Wake Island is running out of water".The Americans then had confirmation of the success of their code breaking. Whether this code was the same that was broken and led to the shooting down by Guadacanal based P38s of Admiral Yamamoto's aircraft while he was on his way to visit Shortland seaplane base, I am not sure. [post=35594]Quoted post[/post] Not quite...the island short of "fresh water" was Midway, not Wake. This was done by the Americans before the Battle of Midway to be sure that the target referred to in Japanese messages of "AF" was Midway, and to prove that point to Washington. It worked. The JN-25 code that the Japanese used all through the war was also the one that sent the Yamamoto message. The intercept was ordered because the Americans not only knew his movements in detail, they were within range of their Guadalcanal-based P-38s. "Get Yamamoto" covers the Yamamoto ambush pretty well. There is a new book on the subject. The Midway intercepts are handled well in Stephen Budiansky's "War of Wits."
I think a even more important question is why the defenders of Wake were left on their own. The USN had planned and even started to carry out a rescue or support mission soon after Pearl Harbor. I'm going strictly on memory here, which is always suspect, but I believe part of the issue is the Admiral Kimmel was relieved around that time and there was some reluctance to carry out a mission he had planned. I'm pretty sure Admiral Fletcher was on the Saratoga, with cruisers and destroyer escorts. The rescue mission would have had superiority over the Japanese force attacking the island, though the Japanese would have been able to concentrate superior forces later, like the Kido Butai attack force of six carriers.
Originally posted by halfyank@Jun 21 2005, 01:23 PM I think a even more important question is why the defenders of Wake were left on their own. The USN had planned and even started to carry out a rescue or support mission soon after Pearl Harbor. I'm going strictly on memory here, which is always suspect, but I believe part of the issue is the Admiral Kimmel was relieved around that time and there was some reluctance to carry out a mission he had planned. I'm pretty sure Admiral Fletcher was on the Saratoga, with cruisers and destroyer escorts. The rescue mission would have had superiority over the Japanese force attacking the island, though the Japanese would have been able to concentrate superior forces later, like the Kido Butai attack force of six carriers. [post=35609]Quoted post[/post] That's pretty accurate. Fletcher was actually on his flagship Astoria, I believe, but he was more concerned with fueling than fighting. The other "villain" in the piece is the guy who replaced Kimmel, Adm. Pye, who was cautious and somewhat shell-shocked by the disaster. He was reluctant to lose even more heavy ships. The decision to withdraw the relief force caused great anger among the Marine and Navy officers. On Saratoga's bridge, officers talked about pulling a Nelson to the order ("the blind eye to the telescope"), and the talk was so acrimonious that the admiral left the bridge.
Originally posted by Kiwiwriter@Jun 22 2005, 09:31 AM That's pretty accurate. Fletcher was actually on his flagship Astoria, I believe, but he was more concerned with fueling than fighting. The other "villain" in the piece is the guy who replaced Kimmel, Adm. Pye, who was cautious and somewhat shell-shocked by the disaster. He was reluctant to lose even more heavy ships. The decision to withdraw the relief force caused great anger among the Marine and Navy officers. On Saratoga's bridge, officers talked about pulling a Nelson to the order ("the blind eye to the telescope"), and the talk was so acrimonious that the admiral left the bridge. [post=35654]Quoted post[/post] Good posts! Also to blame was the cryptic radio message sent by Commander Cunningham to Admiral Pye right before the surrender. "ENEMY ON ISLAND. ISSUE IN DOUBT" led Pye & Kimmel to believe that all was already lost and any relief attempt on Wake would be an unnecessary risk.
