Wellington Mk2 or Mk 3 - how can you tell the difference?

Nicola, look at Owen's post no. 8 above, compare the first and last two photos. That's what I mean by "pointy" and "round" engines , or Merlins and Hercules. The "pointy" Merlin is what mainly defines the Mk.II, all the other versions were Hercules.

Nice job you're doing, I wouldn't know where or how to start!

Za I'm a girlie who is of a certain age (ie where you start to need magnifying glasses to read small print). I really am finding it difficult to actually see what you're all referring to .

Thanks, I didnt' know where to start either, just started googling my uncle's name, the date & the plane type & then came up with Lost Bombers and carried on from there. That & being pig headed and not wanting to give up without a damn good fight lol

 

I think that since my aircraft recce is not very good then I could easily mistake the different marks for each other at that distance...depends on having really good eyesight and/or binos too I suppose...

 

Wellington Mark II




Wellington Mark III
All right Nicola and Oggie, extending my thanks to Owen, you have two photos taken at more or less the same angle. Now please compare the engines in them.

Can you see the difference between the 'pointy' engine in the former with that big propeller spinner, and the 'round' one in the latter?

If not, may I ask whether you are sure your monitors are turned on?

(All right, I'll try and find other instances to illustrate this if needed )

 

1) No!!! Seriously I can't, there's not really enough definition for me. Dont' forget I'm starting from a position of knowing little about plane construction in the first place. A lovely big line drawing of each would be fantastic

2) Yes!!!! Yes i've checked, the laptop is definitely on

3) Thanks!!

 

Never say die Let's have another go at Pointy and Roundy!



Can you see the engine cowling in the photo on the left is narrower than the other?

Now back to the original question, can you imagine trying to figure out these finer points at night? I know crews were supposed to be trained in recognition, but still...

 

EErrr..... dare I ask.....what's a cowling?? (she ducks) lol

 

OOh wait!! I think I know what you mean!! Ah!

yeah can now see a difference! Blimey! i wouldn't spot that under duress!!

 

All right, the engine housing

Whew!

Now, can you reply to your own original question: "Would a Mk 2 or 3 be easily identified under heavy fire, flak, bullets etc or is there a chance of misidentification?" ?

 

Hallelujah!! Many thanks Za! So there could be misidentification I think, its a very minor shape difference apart from the 4 gun turret (ooh I feel very technical talking about guns on planes lol)

 

Holy petunias, that's even worse! Telling a 2-gun from a 4-gun turret in the dark is totally impossible unless it is shooting at you

 

I think that we can conclude that after dark and certainly under combat conditions it would be near impossible to determine what type of plane it is, never mind what mark of plane it is!!!

 

I think that we can conclude that after dark and certainly under combat conditions it would be near impossible to determine what type of plane it is, never mind what mark of plane it is!!!

Hurrah! So there is still hope that the sea crash site ISN'T X3757 . I'm back on the case again now lol

 

Hurrah! So there is still hope that the sea crash site ISN'T X3757 . I'm back on the case again now lol
There is always hope Nicola!

 

I think that we can conclude that after dark and certainly under combat conditions it would be near impossible to determine what type of plane it is, never mind what mark of plane it is!!!
Words of wisdom.

 

I think that we can conclude that after dark and certainly under combat conditions it would be near impossible to determine what type of plane it is, never mind what mark of plane it is!!!


Gerard,
Absolutely spot on.

Nicola,

I remember once reading that Douglas Bader once commented that he had difficulties with certain German Bomber Aircraft recognition.

Remember that this was during daylight.

Regards
Tom

 

Gerard,
Absolutely spot on.

Nicola,

I remember once reading that Douglas Bader once commented that he had difficulties with certain German Bomber Aircraft recognition.

Remember that this was during daylight.

Regards
Tom

That gives me hope & inspiration thanks Tom.

 

Reminds me of the story that some Allied soldiers swore blind that every german tank they faced was a Tiger.

 

There were exhaust flame dampers made for that very purpose.

Here's a Sunderland's Bristol Pegasus with direct exhaust, and a Aussie Beaufigther with a Bristol Hercules (all in the house), with a nice flame damper.
View attachment 57069

Two other varieties of flame dampers.


Yes it would, and it would be a clear sign to stay prudently away as other sharks might be joining the killing. I don't have any statistics at hand, but the ratio of bombers shot down compared to Nachjäger shot down by intended victims would not be too favourable.

Again, we're not talking of hundreds of bombers flying in a Bomb Box as in USAAC day raids, we're talking of bomber streams at night, flying in the same bearing but isolated at different heights to avoid collision and detection. "They saw him, hope they don't see me."

Those were anxious moments, when some lookout called for a shadow on the starboard beam. "Was it another bomber? Was it a fighter? Maybe he's just there, didn't see us so let's not be stupid and light a beacon in the sky by shooting at the guy, for all to see. Might be a bloke from the squadron after all."

 

Going off-topic, here's a nice photo of a Bristol Hercules valve gearing.



Lose one of these and you're screwed

And back on topic, another Hercules, the exhaust piping from the manifold through to the exhaust outlet, damped or not.