The Wellington W5704 bombed our village Roden, in the Netherlands, on october 24 1941. It was a mistake. Roden is about 10 miles below the city Groningen, in The north of the country. On jyly 26 a bomb was found in our village. It did not explode in 1941. I have written a book about that bombing. Now I would love to know more about the crew. Sgt. Austin, Gray, Tomlinson, Whitton, Gill and Cox. These names I have from the reports of the RAF. The target was Emden. The Wellingtons that bombed Emden that evening were; Waterbeach, 99 sq. Mildenhall, 149 sq. Feltwell, 57 and 75 sq. Stradishall 214 sq. I already have written many mails to the UK. Is it possible that anybody knows about the crew? If you google my name or bom Roden you will find a lot. (in Dutch ofr course). Than you in advance. Best wishes,. Tjerk Karsijns, Roden-Holland.
Hello and welcome Are you sure about the identification of the aircraft? You give the date of 24 October 1941, yet it was shot down 30 May 1942. Your village of Roden is almost 400 kilometres north east of where it was to crash 7 months later at Middelburg.... There is a town Middelbert, only 20 kms from you, is that the correct location, if not date? Something is therefore wrong! Do you know an Adrian (Lancaster1 on key Forum 26 OTU Wellington W5704 or WS704?? ?) He is in touch with the relatives of Sgt Young and Hall (both RNZAF) Loss of 26 OTU Wellington W5704 shot down by Oblt Reinhard Knacke, 3 Kms W. of Middelbeers (Middelburg?), Netherlands. Other sources say Wellington Ic W5704 coded WG@S took off from RAF Graveley 23.45 hrs 30 May 42. It is thought Hptm Werner Streib 1./NJG1 shot it down at about 1:30 Local Time. The two RNZAF crew were on loan from 27 OTU. It was the night of the first 1,000 bomber raid on Cologne and to make up the numbers many partially trained crews from various OTU's were drawn in. If the aircraft you identify didn't crash on 24 October 1941, how do you know it was THAT aircraft that bombed Roden, and who the crew were? Can you please clarify dates, aircraft and crew, so we can help you better? EDIT: A quick Google shows two crew you name were lost on 7 November 1941 WHITTON, RICHARD FRANK. Rank: Sergeant. Service No: 953719. Date of Death: 07/11/1941. Age: 22. Regiment/Service: Royal Air Force Volunteer Reserve 57 Sqdn. Panel Reference: Panel 54. Memorial: RUNNYMEDE MEMORIAL. Additional Information: Son of Frank Whitton, and of Beatrice Mary Whitton, of Hollins, Oldham, Lancashire. GRAY, SIDNEY DENNIS COLLEY. Rank: Sergeant. Service No: 1053321. Date of Death: 07/11/1941. Age: 21. Regiment/Service: Royal Air Force Volunteer Reserve 57 Sqdn. Panel Reference: Panel 44. Memorial: RUNNYMEDE MEMORIAL. Additional Information: Son of Sidney Colley Gray and Hephsibah Rachel Gray, of Withington, Manchester. 7-8 November 1941. 57 Squadron. Wellington IC Z8903 DX-? Op. Rover Patrol Took off from Feltwell at 2005 hrs on a Rover Patrol with Munster as its objective. Lost without trace. All are commemorated on the Runnymede Memorial. Crew. Sgt. S D C. Gray + Sgt. W F P. Sellers RCAF + P/O. E E. Brown + Sgt. E I L. Grego + Sgt. R F. Whitton + Sgt. W M. Cullerne + See: Remembering Today 7/11/41 Richard Whitton, RAFVR 7th December 1941 was the Pearl Harbor attack that brought the USA into the War.
Kevin, It is possible that this aircraft is the one. But after a couple of hours I have not been able to connect it to the squadrons mentioned. As the crew named have no first names, initials or numbers, it's very hard to match the names to the squadrons, several of the surnames are in the squadrons, but when you look them up, they don't match. Just might get lucky and someone recognises the crew names and can place them in the squadron at the time. Tjerk Karsijns na presentatie resultaten vooronderzoek Leemans: nog een ander vliegtuig betrokken bij bombardement Roden?
Good afternoon.Sorry for my school-english. I hope I react in the right way. It is all new for me. If I do things wrong please tell me. I have sent this mail a couple of times. But, the more information the better. I will tell a bit more about the bombing on Roden; As I told you it happened on a friday-evening, Between 20.00 and 22.00 hours. In our village incindiaries exploded, and 6 bombs. One person was killed. But, there was a strange hole in the ground, so everybody was convinced that one bomb did not explode. That bomb was found on july 26 2016. It was a 250-pound bomb. What did I do; I contacted the Public Record Office in the UK and asked them to find out which plane was in Roden. First they asked me how many bombs were fallen in Roden. Well,m that were 6, incedndiaries and a hole in the ground. In the UK an investigator looked in the reports of 24/25 october 1941. Then they found out that the Wellingtons had those bombs and incindiaries on board. Then they looked how many Wellingtons flew a mission that evening. That was; Waterbeach; 99 sq. 3 on Emden. Mildenhall, sq. 149 2 on Emden. Feltwell, 57 sq. 2 on Emden. Feltwell 75 sq. 3 on Emden. Stradishall, 214 sq. 2 on Emden. So 12 Wellingtons went to Emden. 11 planes could not have bombed Roden, because of the time up and down. Planes that came back at midnight could not have bombed Roden. In other reports was said that they had bombed Emden. So the W5704 was the only plane that could have bombed Roden. The crew reported that the bombs exploded in the fields. The time of bombing was also a reason to me that it had been this plane. A special company has investigated the bombing of Roden. That was done because I constantly warned the local government that there was a problemm in the middle of our village. They wanted to build a parking-lot underground. Exactly on the spot where the hole was in the ground. Making such a parking-lot would mean that they had to dig deep. At the end they listened and that speciasl company needed 3 weeks to find the bomb. It was about15 feet deep. It was the 250-pound. Wghen you google on Tjerk Karsijns or bom Roden you will find a lot of information. Maybe I have given enough information. I hope so. Sorry for my school-english. Thank you for your time. All best. Tjerk Karsijns under; again the report of the Public Record Office. W5704, time up 18.05 , time down 05.25 Duty: Sgt.Gray, captain, Sgt.Austin, 2 nd. pilot, Sgt. Tomlinson, observer, Sgt. Whitton, 1st. W/T., Sgt. Gill, 2nd. W/T., Sgt. Cox. A/G. Bombing Raid 21.30 hrs. 8000 ‘.MSI-G/57. Emden. 6x500 lb. 1 x 250 lb. 1 SBC Emden was thought to have been but photo shows bomb bursts in fields.
Tjaerk, don't worry, your English is much better than my Dutch! I now understand how you arrived at Wellington W5704. Two of the crew Names match those of a 57 Squadron Wellington that was shot down over the North Sea two weeks later on 7th November 1941. W5704 would therefore most likely to have been flown by 57 Squadron on 24th October 1941. The possibility is that it was damaged during that raid and may have been taken out of 57 Squadron service for repair, and later assigned to No. 26 Operational Training Unit by the time the 1,000 bomber raid was mounted against Cologne (Koln) on 31st May 1942, when W5704 was shot down. That's the best explanation I can give for W5704 being the bomber jettisoning its bombs without reaching its designated target, some form of damage, as I'm sure Roden was never intended as a target, although the excavations to find the unexploded bomb may have saved the town considerable expense for an underground car park! These Names may correspond with those given as the crew that night, and were serving with 57 Squadron when killed, but may not be the men flying that night. Austen (no Austin with 57 Squadron if killed) and Cox for example were only 20 when killed some years later, and would therefore have almost been too young to be aircrew in 1941. AUSTEN, FRANK JOHN. Rank: Flight Sergeant. Trade: Pilot. Service No: 1333889. Date of Death: 23/09/1943. Age: 20. Regiment/Service: Royal Air Force Volunteer Reserve 57 Sqdn. Grave Reference: Coll. grave 20. A. 17-19. Cemetery: RHEINBERG WAR CEMETERY. Additional Information: Son of Frank William and Elsie Francis Austen, of Maidstone, Kent. COX, ALWYN TREVOR. Rank: Pilot Officer. Trade: Flight Engineer. Service No: 175483. Date of Death: 27/04/1944. Age: 20. Regiment/Service: Royal Air Force Volunteer Reserve 57 Sqdn. Grave Reference: Coll. grave 8. H. 12-19. Cemetery: DURNBACH WAR CEMETERY. Additional Information: Son of James Henry and Ellen Cox, of New Earswick, Yorkshire. GILL, DEREK. Rank: Pilot Officer. Trade: Flight Engineer. Service No: 116096. Date of Death: 28/08/1942. Regiment/Service: Royal Air Force Volunteer Reserve 57 Sqdn. Grave Reference: 19. A. 17. Cemetery: REICHSWALD FOREST WAR CEMETERY. I cannot find a Tomlinson in the Commonwealth War Graves Debt of Honour website as a 57 Squadron crew member, but men were often transferred from Squadrons, particularly if promoted. There is one Tomlinson recorded as a Prisoner of War, Flight Sergeant L. W. Tomlinson, shot down on 21st May 1943 onboard 138 Squadron Halifax BB329, but I cannot be sure that any of these Names are actually those onboard W5704 that night. In short, whilst you have done an impressive amount of research, and remembering where an unexploded bomb fell, I'm sorry, I haven't the skills to take this much further for you. Perhaps other more expert Pals here may be able to help. Best wishes
To KevinBattle and other members; thank you so much for your answer. Let's hope there will be more information about the crew of te W5704. The first part of my book I wrote in 2005. (investigation 2001/2005). Now the bomb is found in Roden, on july 26 2016, I am busy with part two of the book. The first book was about 62 pages. Now there are about 175 pages. With a lot of fantastic pictures of the investigation of Leemans Special Works. They found the bomb in Roden. I am new on this site and not so handy... Can I put pictures on it? Best wishes, Tjerk Karsijns.
I think this confirms that W5704 was with 57 sqd at Feltwell in June 1941. also mentions Cox, although no first name. If only we had some first names, we could whittle them down to a few possibilities. In Air78/6 there are 169 persons named Austen who joined the RAF 1918 -1965. and for Austin 1,768. Bomber County Might be an idea to pose your question on the forum here. 57 & 630 Squadron Association
Indeed, it is a pity that we do not have first names. It would be great to post the question. Thanks for that. Tjerk Karsijns.
This is most interesting. Just for fun I typed in Jimmy's aircraft code and this forum popped up. Jim is my mothers younger brother who captained this plane for 30 operations between June and October 1941, code DX G for 57 Squadron. His last op was Cologne on the 15th October. The irony of it all was this plane was shot down on the 1st 1000 bomber raid and on board were 2 kiwis, one being my name sake. Young (no relative). Jimmy, real name Charles, was killed in an air accident exactly one year to the day he left 57 squadron. He was then a Flt L Instructing in blind flying, due to commence operations again. Gray, Whitten, and Cox was in his crew
Good morning from the Netherlands. Thank you so much for your message. I would like to get in contact with you. You have read about the bombing on our village. In july 2016 a bomb was found in our village. The plane dropped 7 bombs (record books). There were 6 craters and there was a strange hole in the ground. Exactly in the line of the bombs. I warned the government that there was a dangerous situation in the middle of our village. It took years. Nobody listened. But, last year a company came to our village Roden to search for the bomd. It was found (a 250-pound bomb). It lay rather deep. About 15 feet. Already in 2005 I wrote a book about the bombing. Together with a friend. He died in 2007. Now that the bomb was found I wrote the second part of the book. It is ready this week!! And now I get a message from you. I can send you a lot of information, pictures etc. etc. I would like to know more about the vrew. I could not find Tomlinson, Cox and Gill. At least, I am not sure about them. There is a lot of information about the W5704. It crashed in the Netherlands. I will give you my mail-address; tg.karbat@gmail.com If you google on "Tjerk Karsijns" or "bom Roden" you can find a lot. I sure hope to hear from you. Of course the book is ready, but I would like to know as much as possible. Thank you in advance. All best, Tjerk Karsijns, Roden Netherlands.
Hi Tjerk, nice to meet you. I will contact you privately when I get some time. I do have a photo of 3 crew members, who they are I cannot say as there is nothing written on the reverse of the photo. Its only what my mother has told me. She is still alive and well and will be 100 next year. I am surprised that the 3 crew would still be operational as they must have surely completed their tours. That is what I will count up when I have a moment of spare time. I have got a little involved in all this research as my fathers youngest brother was also killed. He flew for 75 (NZ) squadron, and is buried at the Vredenhof cemetery in Schiermonnikoog, which I had the pleasure to visit nearly 6 years ago. Speak soon, Best regards. G
To identify Sgt.Gray as the Pilot, my Uncle's log book has on his 21st operation, 17th August.1941, Self as Pilot, Sgt.Gray and Crew, Dick, Whitten, Lines, and Cox, (Whitten was the Bomber aimer as 1st W/T). Sgt. Gray began his 21st birthday. 21st operation to Duisburg. Here the natives proved hostile - 9/10 Cloud all the way but managed to pick out valuable pin point ht. 8000ft. Hope this helps. I think the comment about the natives could have derived from 3 nights early when they flew to Hanover. Searchlights & Flak intense - fortunately they were not very accurate
