What it was like . . .

Discussion in 'Veteran Accounts' started by Joe Brown, Mar 16, 2015.

  1. Joe Brown

    Joe Brown WW2 Veteran WW2 Veteran

    I came across this letter in my War-time memorabilia which reminded me of a time in 1943 when I was seeking to glean every scrap of knowledge about what other young officers were experiencing in battle. I hoped to learn so that I would be better equipped to be entrusted to lead the men under my command and to fulfil that trust so they would be willing follow me as their leader.

    I have put it on the Forum so that it will give an in-depth picture of what it was like. It was not written to me but is a copy of a letter written by ‘Paul’ who was a Platoon Commander in Tunisia to ‘Tom’ who commanded a Platoon back in the UK.

    “You asked in your letter for a few ‘tips from the front’. The answer is that we have learnt precious little from actual fighting that is not taught in the normal battle school type of training, but, of course, the penalty for breaking the battle rules is direct and unpleasant so one learns a bit more quickly and permanently than in England.

    “In attack, get your Platoon going on location of fire, observation and intelligent use of what information you have got. Our tendency earlier on (and it wasn’t altogether the Platoon Commander’s fault) was to rush into the attack without really a thorough recce, and without going through with the NCOs every bit of information we had about the enemy’s positions. Once you are in it, it’s hell’s own game trying to see where the bullets are coming from, unless you have a fair idea where the so-and-so’s ought to be. Even then it’s not too easy.

    “We have lost a lot of officers through Platoon Commanders being too eager and rushing right up with their leading section. You can fight your Platoon a darned sight better by staying in a position from which you can manoeuvre your reserves (i.e., your two rear sections when you have seen what fire is drawn by the leading section. The same applies to Company Commanders.

    “Practice lots of frontal attacks. Bosche positions are so invariable mutually supporting that Platoon flanking attacks are damned hard. Especially as the bloke you are after is supported by MMG fire from somewhere out of range of your LMG.

    “Approach marches are important. You nearly always have several miles to cover, probably in the dark, before your men reach the place from which the attack starts. The condition in which your men reach that assembly area is going to make a whole lot of difference to their performance when the big moment comes. If the march has been orderly, with plenty of time to check up on everything and rest the men at the assembly area, they will start off confident and know what they are playing at.

    “Defence took rather a back seat at home – we were supposed to be – ‘assault troops’ - but assault troops or not, 95% of your time will be spent in defence, because whenever you are not actually attacking you have to be in a position to defend yourself. So it is well worth studying. The Bosche are cleverer at it than we are. However huge an area of country you are given, in placing your troops imagine you have only three-quarters of your Platoon. Put your spare quarter aside as a mobile reserve, then forget all the books, and put the rest wherever your own common sense and your knowledge of Bosche habits tells you. Whenever possible, you want to be on reverse slopes – any movement on forward slopes brings the shells down and it is not easy to stay still all day. If the ground forces you to take up forward slope positions, keep the absolute minimum at battle posts to observe, and the rest in cover until you are attacked. It is then that your fire control comes in. The first time, unless you drum it in daily, everyone will blaze off at any range at the first Bosche to appear, giving all your positions away. It is much more satisfying to let the Jerries come up a bit and catch them in numbers on some open patch. If by chance they knock out one of your posts and start getting in amongst you, then you thank God for that quarter you kept in reserve and nip in your counter-attack straight away. If you have got a counter-attack, properly rehearsed with supporting fire, etc., for each of your posts, you should be able to get it in almost as soon as they arrive, or, better still, get them in a flank as they advance.

    “In defence by night, the section sentry wants to be manning the Bren in the same trench as the NCO. On this side of the trench he has the section Commander’s Tommy gun, a couple of grenades and a Verey pistol with plenty of cartridges – so he is ready for anything. If a Bosche patrol attacks, they will let off lashings of automatic fire at random, to draw yours, and when they retire it will be under cover of mortars. The answer is, stay still and hold your fire until you can pick a certain target.

    “At Djbel Aboid we were attacked by a patrol some fifteen strong. They fired literally thousands of rounds without causing a casualty. We fired twenty rounds, killed an officer and two ORs. I do not think it is worth chasing a retiring patrol – they want you to leave your trenches, so as to catch you with their mortars. You could possibly guess their line of retreat, and chase them with your own mortar fire.

    “The best patrolling troops we have come across are the Moroccan Goums, whose success, as compared with any Europeans is quite phenomenal. Even against the best of the Germans they never fail. Why are they better than us? Firstly, because they are wild hillmen and trained as warriors from birth, but also because the preparation of the patrols is done with such detail thoroughness. No fighting patrol is sent out until its leaders have spent at least a day watching the actual post they are after, and recce-ing routes, etc. And if they are not satisfied at the end of the day they will postpone the patrol and spend another day at it. We are rather inclined to think of a patrol at tea-time and do it the same evening. It is not as easy as that. To be worth the candle, a fighting patrol must start off with an odds-on chance of two to one, not six to four, or evens, but a good two to one bet. To make this possible your information has got to be really good and up to date.

    “Slit trenches deserve a paragraph all to themselves. A few days after we had landed we spent literally a whole day at Tabark being dive-bombed and machine-gunned from the air, This went on intermittently all the following week at Djebel Aboid, plus more than enough shelling. Since then the men have dug slit trenches automatically, even if they arrive at a place soaking wet at three in morning, and they are a full five feet deep too. Anyone will tell you tales of miraculous escapes due to slit trenches – shell landing a couple of feet away without hurting the bloke inside, etc. I do not think you could ever shell this Battalion out of a position, if only because they know they are safer in slit trenches than out of them. Incidentally, machine-gunning from the air is perfectly bloody – worse than bombing or shelling. The accuracy of it is something I never imagined. An unopposed fighter can guarantee to hit a solitary car. But again, if you have got slit trenches, casualties from it are ‘nix’ and you find that, after all, the noise was the worst part of it.

    “Somebody once said ‘Warfare consists of boredom punctuated by odd moments of excitement’. When you are living in shocking weather with nothing but a gas cape over your head and thirty men look to you to censor letters, dish out NAAFI stuff, make the best of rations, get them kit from the ‘Q’, there’s too much to be done to get bored. When you in turn have got to see they are always ready to fight, that they are in good heart, that they are clean and healthy and that the NCOs are doing their jobs, you may get browned off but never bored. Discipline is the hardest and most important thing to keep going. You and the NCOs are 24 hour a day with the men, and it’s almost bound to slacken off if you’re not on your guard. I find the best way is to keep a strict routine however shocking the conditions; i.e., washing and weapons clean by ?hours, meals at ?hours, etc. If you keep a firm hold on the men over these day-to-day things you’ll find you’ve got them right under control when the trouble starts.

    “Finally, remember ‘there are bad leaders but no bad troops’. This is horribly true. We have often seen it our here – indifferent men fighting magnificently under a first-class leader and vice-versa. It does make you realise what a vitally important job you’ve got.”

    This letter shows what a fearful job it was for any young lieutenant. Yet, when I commanded a rifle platoon the best part was the time you were living with the platoon . . . a disparate group men mutually dependent on each other and bonded by true comradeship.

    Joe Brown.
     
    Thunderbox, 4jonboy, Gage and 7 others like this.
  2. Nijmegen

    Nijmegen Member

    Very practical advice, I suppose you picked up some of the tips. Did you exchange tips with fellow soldiers?

    Nice to see your newspaper skills blossom, lately!
     
  3. 51highland

    51highland Very Senior Member

    great Post Joe, many thanks.!!
     
  4. Lotus7

    Lotus7 Well-Known Member

    Once again thanks for sharing Joe, another interesting post
     
  5. Tom Canning

    Tom Canning WW2 Veteran WW2 Veteran

    Joe

    as Tank support for a company of Seaforths of Canada my squadron invariably carried them into the near start line in every battle

    thus ensuring that they were fresh to go - and stayed with them all through until the sun went down when we had to refresh our

    ammo and fuel- then same again the next day - we got to know what each could do for the other…

    Cheers
     
  6. Charley Fortnum

    Charley Fortnum Dreaming of Red Eagles

    An intensely interesting read, primarily because it's the kind of nuts and bolts practicality that veterans seldom discuss unless asked as it seems so obvious to those who have been (and led) in combat. Having never served, I've always been hazy on precisely how some of this essential battlefield soldiering is done.

    Thank you, Joe.
     
  7. Owen

    Owen -- --- -.. MOD

    Bloody brill that, cheers Joe.
     
  8. idler

    idler GeneralList

    Thank you for preserving that, Joe.

    The comment about the impracticality of flanking attacks stood out as that was one of the lessons Lionel 'Battle Drill' Wigram learned for himself in Italy. The book 'To Reason Why' by Denis Forman mentioned in this thread:
    http://ww2talk.com/forums/topic/16130-battleschoolsbattledrill/#entry358596
    Has some very interesting material by Wigram on his theory versus practice.
     
  9. canuck

    canuck Closed Account

    Thanks Joe. Much appreciated.

    That is the kind of practical history that we don't see nearly as often as we should.

    Those tips reminded me very much of Charlie Martin, who wrote in great detail about his own experience, during and after June 6th, in learning the art and craft of the infantryman His book, Battle Diary, would be of interest to you.
     
  10. Gage

    Gage The Battle of Barking Creek

    A great read. Thanks.
     
  11. Joe Brown

    Joe Brown WW2 Veteran WW2 Veteran

    Thank you to everyone for their kind comments.

    Having re-discovered the letter from Paul to Tom, indeed as I typed it on to the Forum, I was thinking what I fine man Paul was and what a wonderful friend to have. He comes across as a very perceptive, intelligent and conscientious man. I hope he and Paul survived and would have liked him as a friend during the long years since the War ended.

    That set me thinking of the many good men I met because the War had taken me out of my small town. Although I regret every minute I was away, a crowd of faces flash into focus as you recall the great guys you served beside. All ordinary lads whose courage gave you courage you did not know you possessed. Others that inspired you to rise about the situation and do things you did not think were within your ability.

    I had a friend like Paul. His name was Roy Boston and we were in the same group at OCTU and opted to be commissioned into the same Regiment so we could serve together. We were not so fortunate but we kept closely in touch and remained good friends down the long years since those days of 1943. We were ‘life buddies’ and in an instant a phone call wiped away the years, the bond as young men as fresh and vital as always.

    Roy wrote me a ‘what it was like’ letter from Sicily when he was a Platoon Commander with the 1st Battalion The Black Watch. He wrote “Our Company Commander did a bit of good work with the 18 Wireless Set on the last night attack we did. You see, Joe, it was like this: There was a Brigade night attack going in with two Battalions, we were on the left. So after dark we moved up into our slit trenches, our Company being reserve company. Then at midnight the barrage opened up for an hour. Gosh what a sight!

    “Then the attack went in, our forward Companies took their positions on this ridge and then the other Battalion wirelessed back that it had taken its positions. And it was decided that our Company would sit on the ridge between the two Battalions. So we moved off, and were just moving up the hill towards our positions just before dawn when three Spandaus opened up. What a sensation Joe to look under your tin hat and see tracer whizzing over your head, not more than a couple of feet.

    “The Company Commander decided to send two Platoons up the hill and see what they could do. I was lucky as he kept me in reserve in a dip. The two Platoons were pinned down and daylight came with the old Jerry giving us a taste of his mortar. The Company Commander got on to the artillery and directed their fire smack on the target. It was a pretty tight spot and you maybe can guess what it was like to hear the 25 pdrs bashing the hill above, 50 feet over our heads. I was expecting a shell to fall short and blast us to hell.

    “Then he sent me up the hill to clear the nests. As soon as I topped the ridge I was greeted with a hail of Spandaus and snipers. Anyway all was well until he gave us about 15 to 20 minutes with his 6-inch mortars. That wasn’t so hot! Anyway considering we were cut off, I think we got away lucky as I didn’t have a single casualty, by the Grace of God.

    “Another thing, Joe, practise your platoon in carrying full battle load and a pick and a shovel and make them dig in after an attack. I can assure you it will pay them time and again when they have to do it. Entrenching tools are NO USE!”

    Where would we have been without those guys who shared and encouraged by their example, making you better able to cope when it was your turn.
     
  12. Nijmegen

    Nijmegen Member

    That is real poetry, Joe.
     
  13. idler

    idler GeneralList

    Joe, may I ask to what extent were you able to follow through on their advice? Was it encouraged, or even formalised within units or formations?
     
  14. Joe Brown

    Joe Brown WW2 Veteran WW2 Veteran

    Idler:


    In action I was never put to the test as a Rifle Company Platoon Commander but deployed as the Battalion’s Intelligence Officer, playing my part at Battalion Headquarters supporting the C.O. as his Tactical Staff Officer as he commanded the Battalion. When he moved forward to command the battle, I would be by his side; required to be fully briefed on the operation and about the enemy dispositions and weaponry.

    Within weeks of arriving at the 7th/9th (Highlanders) Battalion The Royal Scots, I was given command of a Rifle Company Platoon, No.18 Platoon in ‘D’ Company. I was very happy there and felt fulfilled as a young officer, having a fine Platoon of just over thirty men with an excellent sergeant, in a superb Rifle Company with good atmosphere of friendly rivalry between the three Platoons. I was also part of a team of four officers that bonded well together and had respect and high regard for our Company Commander who was a professional soldier and an excellent leader. It was great and what I had been trained to do. To read in Battalion Orders that I was now Battalion I.O. was a surprise and although my Company Commander tried to keep me, his request was turned down.

    Battle Schools were particularly good at relating experience in battle and putting across those kind of lessons which Paul refers through real 'down-to-earth' training techniques. Nevertheless, they could never be as effective as the personal contact between young officers. To know what they faced and how they coped; and learn about the enemy tactics from them, was much more valuable that reading a training manual.

    As Battalion I.O. had lot of reading to do to get a grip of what I was required to know and be able to be an effective I.O. I had access to restricted and secret reports from our operations in Africa and Italy which analysed enemy tactics and our response to them.

    So information was gathered and it was disseminated . . . but at the end of the day Paul's letter carried that extra something that brought life to what you had practised.
     
    canuck likes this.
  15. Lotus7

    Lotus7 Well-Known Member

    What an insight to your life Joe, thanks for another wonderful posting.

    Regards

    David
     
  16. Caz65

    Caz65 Member

    Thank you so much Joe for sharing this. It was extremely interesting to read through, though I have to confess there were parts I didn't fully grasp because to me it was 'soldier speak' - and no, I really don't mind anyone thinking "well that's a woman for you!"
    Thanks again. Carol
     
  17. Mike L

    Mike L Very Senior Member

    Joe,

    Brilliant accounts from an Infantry Officer's point of view (as we have come to expect from you, as well as your IO's perspective) and many thanks for posting it.

    One thing I picked up on was the mention of carrying full size picks and shovels since the entrenching tool was not very good.
    This was mentioned in another thread recently, an observation by an American that the British carried picks and shovels for digging in wheras the Americans didn't, and he was impressed by the British effort and effects.

    Could you offer a comment on this? Did your guys carry entrenching tools or picks/shovels or did this vary accounding to ground conditions in different areas?

    Best regards,

    Mike
     
  18. canuck

    canuck Closed Account

    The Canadians seem to have agreed with Joe:

    shovel.jpg shovel1.jpg View attachment 134345 shovel4.jpg shovel5.jpg
     
  19. Bernard85

    Bernard85 WW2 Veteran WW2 Veteran

    good day joe brown,march 16th 2015 03:19pm.re:what it was like.#1-11-14.thank you for sharing your war service.it takes you there,its hard to believe that anybody can survive with all that machine gun fire,greanades.mortars ect.but thats what training was about.glad you made it.great post's as usual.regards bernard85
     
  20. Tom Canning

    Tom Canning WW2 Veteran WW2 Veteran

    AS Tank crew members we always had a shovel handy as it was learned very early that it was pointless trying to sleep under the Tank

    as with the weight i.e a Churchill at close to 40 Tons had a tendency to sink into the ground taking anything with it so we slept

    alongside it mostly by digging a slit trench big enough for five - which was quite a task at the end of a fighting day - so we

    would say the " hell with it " and just used our blankets to ward off any nastie bits - the shovel was used mainly for our nature
    calls - and was well used…

    Cheers
     

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