Discussion in 'Weapons, Technology & Equipment' started by JamesDrury, Aug 10, 2019.
can any one tell me what tank this is
Might be worth providing the IWM link to the page - always a good idea to add the source of where information comes from
What does it say at the bottom of the image??
I think you'll find thats a Vickers Medium Tank Mk II. Inter-war to very early days of WWII. Here's Wiki's take...Vickers Medium Mark II - Wikipedia
Looks like a water colour sketch of a training area, or post production testing at Vickers maybe.
TD, yes, just seen at the bottom, it says tank driving, something something Regiment
Its the 56th training regiment RAC sketched whilst training on the yorkshire moors in 1940
The IWM has a series of nice watercolours from this time.
Was interested as just started researching my grandfather and he was in the 56th at possibly at this point
Interesting, you never know that could be your grandfather standing next to the Vickers!
A nice thought in deed - he was in the 9th Bttn Duke of Wellingtons Regiment, which i believe became 146 Regiment RAC in India and Burma. My intention is to send for his service records and have a look at the regimental diaries and see what I can find. He died when I was 3 and my dad says he was very reluctant to talk about any of the action he saw, he told a couple of more humorous short tales that my dad remembers but not a lot else. I have his medals and a few regimental bit os uniform etc but the medals have never been worn, still boxed and in their individual envelopes. I was told he never sent for them, it was my grandmother that requested them.
If anyone is an expert and can educate a beginner...
I have a great book that lists the history of the 9th Bttn Dukes individual so i can see on a little detail their timeline.
I refers a fair bit to the different elements of the bttn but I am not too sure how a tank Bttn would be set up. were they all the same ?
I gather the Bttn had 4 Squadrons, a HQ, A,B and C and the Squadron were made up of troops.
How many troops were in a squadron ?
What was a troop ? was it 1 tank or a number of tanks ?
Sorry if these are simplistic, I'm just learning ...
It does always depend on the role of the unit and the period in time. In general terms;
Troop; smallest subunit, normally three tanks (there were variations of two tank or four tanks)
Squadron; principal subunit of the Regiment. Varied between four or five Troops per Squadron, plus further tanks at Squadron HQ.
Regiment; as you've noted, Regimental HQ, HQ Squadron and three Squadrons.
Armoured regiment (United Kingdom) - Wikipedia
Each regiment was formed of four squadrons, A, B, C and HQ. The lettered squadrons were made up of four troops of four tanks and a HQ troop. The HQ squadron was made up of command tanks and a reconnaissance troop of light tanks.
As Gary covers
Might be some more basic info in British Armoured formations of World War II - Wikipedia
James that is really interesting - the Official record of the 9th DWR is scant probably due to them not being considered really 'Dukes'. The RHQ records when I looked at them had very little detail and implied the Bn. didn't train with tanks in the UK. Clearly cadre of skilled personnel came from RAC training regiments.
9 DWR /146 RAC Were issued with Valentine tanks in India as part of 50 Indian Brigade. Not immediately committed due to the retreat from Burma so trained as a Regiment. However, typical of the use of tanks in the Burma Campaign they were were split into Squadrons (c.18 tanks) each of which had very different experiences. It would be worth scanning any records for references e.g. "A Sqn." - HQ, A, B, C, D and Recce, could all be possibilities. Later, the Regiment now equipped with Grant and Lee tanks was involved in the advance into the Arakan however, again, as Infantry support, the experiences of the Sqns. differed.
Thanks for all the advice a great starting point for me.
Yes from what I know so far he was in the 9th DWR then the 56th ATR at Catterick then and I assume back to the 9th to go to India where they became 146 Regiment RAC and got their tanks. I understand the 56th trained in some prewar models which explains the watercolour in my first post.
I recently received Tracer cards form the tank museum which give a little more detail whilst I apply for his service records.
they are pretty tricky to read and I have no idea what a lot of it means so if anyone has any tips for reading and making sense of them it would be very much appreciated.
the first care i think is:
16.10.39 entered service ?
transferred from 9th Duke of wellingtons 22.10.41 to 146th Regiment
transferred 27.02.42 to 2nd Border Regiment ?
re-transferred to RAcC29.03.42 to 146th
29.03.43 F V Sch India ?
31.03.43 146 Regt
27.06.43 XII Indian ?
10.07.43 146 Regt
18.5.45 RAC Depot/UK
16.09.45 58 Training regt
19.10.45 Draft RLFLX ?
i have no idea what V F Sch India is... or XII Indian ....
The second card I have no idea yet …
29.03.43 F V Sch India - Fighting Vehicle School India, as 2 days later hes back with his Regt, perhaps a course or something specific about the vehicle he was assigned to
Draft RLFLX - this is just a random code used when transporting by ship quantities of men and materials, it is attached to all men & materials travelling on a particular ship to ensure only they with that code are loaded - in the same way as you have a code for aircraft today and you have a code on your boarding pass to ensure no interlopers
XII Indian could refer to - XII Corps (India) - Wikipedia you need to do some research on Indian Armoured Divisions/Corps/Brigades etc I guess
The second card shows he was BAOR - British Army Of the Rhine - so a part of the occupy force after the end of WW2 in Europe. He seems to have been tranferred to 1 Northants Yeomanry.
The rest of this card is basically about hime being demobbed throught the army system before finally being placed [as most were] onto the Z list or reserve [able to be called up again if required in the following 'x' years]
thank you so much !!!
and the 'X II Indian' - in June 1943 ? for around 2 weeks
Part of research is actually doing the search part - I'm sorry but I do not know precisely all the answers to your questions, some of that will be down to you
I fully appreciate that and am really grateful for the help so far, I received them today and in the excitement just jumped in. Am looking forward to researching more, hope you didn't think me rude, was in no way my intention. Once again many thanks
Its just sometimes we are asked to find out someones shoe size and what they ate for breakfast, the search part of research is the most enjoyable and you will find out a lot even going down wrong roads.
Many members here have some answers after they have searched and is why they come back and offer others help. It also helps that having been on here for a while some answers are common
Enjoy the ride
The landscape reminds me very much of the countryside around Lulworth in Dorset, looking over the flatter areas of the gunnery ranges. Still in use today and used in war for training.
Using the site search option
Have you seen this thread - 146 Regiment RAC
Separate names with a comma.