William Ernest Brown 1942-1947 R.A

Discussion in 'Royal Artillery' started by Sarah1403, Feb 5, 2012.

  1. Sarah1403

    Sarah1403 Junior Member

    Hello all,

    I am a new member so i hope that i have found the correct area to post this inquiry. I am interested in translating my grandad's service and Army book, but for the life of me i can't seem to get past all the jargon and abbreviations that fill the book. I was hoping it would shed a little light on my grandad's time in the war. I have sent off for his service record, but was really hoping i could find some help on here to get any information i can from this book.

    The most interesting part to me is the 'distinctive marks' section and what the writing there could mean.

    I do hope someone could help or at least point me in the right direction. I would be most grateful for any help.

    Thank you

    Sarah :)
     

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  2. Buteman

    Buteman 336/102 LAA Regiment (7 Lincolns), RA

    Hi Sarah and welcome.

    I'm glad to see that you have sent off for your Grandfather's service record. That will identify the unit(s) he served in.

    He was obviously called up at the end of 1942, due to his age no doubt. He had the rank of P/A/L LBR, towards the end of his service and that made him a Paid/Acting/Lance Bombardier. A rank used in the Royal Artillery/Royal Horse Artillery.

    Unless there is something else written in the pay book, it will not be possible to ID the precise unit and therefore progress to getting copies of war diaries. A lot of us (myself included) have gone down this route and it will take up to a year to get more information from his service records. You can then come back to this site and enquire about the war dairy of his unit. Most diaries finished on disbandment in 1946, but your Grandad appears to have stayed in until 1947, possibly serving as occupation forces somewhere abroad.

    The comments in the distinctive marks section relate partly to his discharge from the Armed Forces. Men were placed in A/S Groups, which is an Age/Service Group. He was in A/S Group 50, which was a late discharge. My Dad was in A/S Group 25 and was demobbed in March 1946, so that gives you an idea that your Granddad was much further away from being discharged.

    Hope that helps a little.

    Regards - Rob
     
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  3. Ron Goldstein

    Ron Goldstein WW2 Veteran WW2 Veteran

    Sarah

    Rob has more or less marked your card for you and you would do well to make a note of his recommendations.

    Other members will no doubt be along shortly to tell you how to apply for the actual records.

    If you want to see what you are likely to get, click on my avatar, go to my profile, and in the photo album section you will find all the record sheets that I eventually received.

    Welcome aboard & good luck with your research !

    Ron
     
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  4. Sarah1403

    Sarah1403 Junior Member

    Hello gentlemen,

    Thank you so much for your help and advice, exactly what i was after :) I am greatly looking forward to recieving my grandads service record, as to is my dad. We are very interested to find out if any of our family stories are true as he was apparently present on the day Belsen camp was liberated. This may prove to be false, as most family stories are but I am looking forward to finding out exactly what he did and where he went. He died when i was 8 years old, i was very fond of him and wish i had known him better. He didn't speak much about the war, only to my nan, who is now not with us either. He didn't send off for any medals and i have only a few images of him in uniform but that's it.

    Perhaps i could ask if someone here may be able to identify his regiment from his uniform if i attached them? If so where should i post such items.

    I will follow your advice Ron and have a look at your profile to see what i can expect.

    Thank you both again for all your help, this is the start of many more exciting questions :) We are expecting his service record in June this year :D

    Sarah :)
     
  5. Mike L

    Mike L Very Senior Member

    Hi Sarah and welcome to the forum.
    Glad to see you have your Grandfather's AB64 and have done the thing we always advise - applied for his service record. I hope you asked for a copy of the FULL record, sometimes you might get a summary if not.
    As Rob has advised, he was almost certainly Royal Artillery as a Bombardier but please post any photos you have here (on this thread) for continuity, someone might be able to spot something to id a unit.
    If he never applied for his medals have you considered doing so? Might be a nice thing to pass on to future generations.
    Might be worth re-titling your thread to include his name, service dates and 'RA?'. It would attract some more interest. If you don't know how to do that ask a Moderator such as Gage or Owen to do it for you.
    Good luck,

    Mike
     
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  6. Tom Canning

    Tom Canning WW2 Veteran WW2 Veteran

    Sarah
    I thought that your questions would have been answered by now - but no - so here goes - he didn't have any distinctive marks so that portion of the page is blank but there is entry of the fact that he was due for Python which was leave from Overseas as his time was up having done at last 3 years out of the Uk-
    The other note is that his age and service group at 50 was the same as mine as was his service number of 14376*** - mine was 14377*** and Ron's number was also around 1437****

    and the 50 A& S people from Northern Command were demobbed at York in May 1947 - having joined in OCT- Dec 1942

    So the service records should be interesting to find out where he actually served which will give you a line on his Medal entitlement

    Cheers
     
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  7. Tom Canning

    Tom Canning WW2 Veteran WW2 Veteran

    Sarah-

    Further thoughts as if he was due for PYTHON- then you
    thought he was in Normandy- not enough time to have three years out of the Uk so I would suspect that he had been in Africa / Italy probably and went home with XXX Corps and /or VIII Armoured bde- but the six months in the Uk might have cancelled that Python

    Interesting
    Cheers
     
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  8. Ron Goldstein

    Ron Goldstein WW2 Veteran WW2 Veteran

    Sarah1403 likes this.
  9. Sarah1403

    Sarah1403 Junior Member

    Hello all,

    This has been better than I could imagine, I feel i am getting more pieces of the puzzle. I am posting some images of my grandad and hope that someone may be able to give me some more information about him and his war life. He lived in Lancaster, Lancashire, but was born in Sedbergh, Yorkshire.

    I never woud have guessed that PYTHON meant that, i am really looking forward to getting his service record now! I find it bizarre that you, Ron and my grandad share the first four digits of your service numbers, or is that quite normal?

    I was told by my dad that my grandad contracted TB from his time in the war and he had to be treated (along with several other men) at a hospital. I was also told that he contracted this TB from his time spent with the deseased bodies in Belsen camp. A horrid and chilling thought, but the information I have is so little, i am trying to piece it together then best I can. Stories must come from somewhere.

    I'd be interested to know people's thoughts on the pictures :)

    Manythanks in advance

    Sarah :)
     

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  10. Steve Mac

    Steve Mac Very Senior Member

    Hello all,

    This has been better than I could imagine, I feel i am getting more pieces of the puzzle. I am posting some images of my grandad and hope that someone may be able to give me some more information about him and his war life. He lived in Lancaster, Lancashire, but was born in Sedbergh, Yorkshire.

    I never woud have guessed that PYTHON meant that, i am really looking forward to getting his service record now! I find it bizarre that you, Ron and my grandad share the first four digits of your service numbers, or is that quite normal?

    I was told by my dad that my grandad contracted TB from his time in the war and he had to be treated (along with several other men) at a hospital. I was also told that he contracted this TB from his time spent with the deseased bodies in Belsen camp. A horrid and chilling thought, but the information I have is so little, i am trying to piece it together then best I can. Stories must come from somewhere.

    I'd be interested to know people's thoughts on the pictures :)

    Manythanks in advance

    Sarah :)

    Definitely Royal Artillery Sarah, but can't tell any more than that!

    Best,

    Steve.
     
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  11. Tom Canning

    Tom Canning WW2 Veteran WW2 Veteran

    Sarah - the numbering system was not too bizarre when you think that all three were of a similar age and so were called up at that time the143numbers were called in 1942 - then in 1943 it became 144 /5 /6 / 7 which brought them to the end of the war - so not too bizarre as it was a new system in that we all did six weeks initial training in the General Service Corp as Infantry to learn how to behave in the army - then psychiatric testing to see where we could fit in- Ron went into the Artillery - I went into Tanks ....similar number - same age group for demob..
    Cheers
     
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  12. Buteman

    Buteman 336/102 LAA Regiment (7 Lincolns), RA

    Great Photos Sarah. I started out the same as you, with a pay book and a couple of photos, nothing more.

    Until I got my Dad's records, I could not start my research with any certainty. Before I did though, I was given a lead and it turned out to be incorrect (ages before I joined this Forum). I bought a very expensive history of the wrong Regiment, which I still have, hence the words of caution before going down any blind alleys yourself. It's best to be patient and start properly when you get those records.
     
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  13. Sarah1403

    Sarah1403 Junior Member

    Thanks guys, advice gratefully recieved. With further explanation in regards to the numbering system things seem to be falling into place. I realise i have a lot to learn, but i am enjoying finding out new things. At first researching my ancestors military records seemed daunting, but now, the more i find out, the more i want to know.

    I visit my dad next week and am going to have another look round his loft to see if there are any more documents that may help me in my quest. Words of caution taken on board and I hope i will have a lot more questions when i finally get my hands on my grandad's service record.

    Thanks again

    Sarah :)
     
  14. Sarah1403

    Sarah1403 Junior Member

    Hello all, I'm here again looking for help:)

    So I went away and did some more snooping and found this in my dad's loft. Still as cryptic as the first set of pictures, but the last page is quite revealing, but i could still do with smoe help to put it into context.I was hoping that I could get some translation if there is anyone who could help me I would be most greatful.

    I'm also still waiting for the Service Record of my Grandad - hopefully going to arrive around June this year.

    Many thanks

    Sarah :)
     

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  15. Steve Mac

    Steve Mac Very Senior Member

    Hello Sarah,

    The release records refer to him serving with the 67th Training Regiment, HAA, in Palestine before discharge in 1947.

    This link refers: 66thto69thRegimentsRA

    "Fom 1 April 1947, RHQ 6th Field Regiment RA was redesignated RHQ 67th Training Regiment RA with 165 and 155 Trg Btys from 69 and 74 Fld Btys, respectively. ‘B’ Bty of 112th RA Trg Regt also joined, shortly afterwards ‘B’ Bty replaced by 188 AAFC Bty (redes 1/4/47 from 77 Bty of 77/79 Bty) which became 188 Trg Bty."

    HAA refers to Heavy Anti Aircraft; or heavy ack ack.

    This does not mean he served with this/these outfits throughout his service, you will need his full service records to determine this!

    Best,

    Steve.
     
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  16. Tom Canning

    Tom Canning WW2 Veteran WW2 Veteran

    Sarah
    This gets curiouser and curiouser - not only joined the same day as I - but demobbed in York on the same day- but there were hundreds of us in York that day - so don't ask if I met him ....thought the early PYTHON was bit odd but obviously he went out East before me - served partly in the Desert - possibly Tunisia and Sicily coming home with XXX corps for Normandy- to be demobbed in May '47
    So he did more than his share in his time....

    Cheers
     
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  17. Smudger Jnr

    Smudger Jnr Our Man in Berlin

    Sarah,
    A belated welcome to the forum and hope that you are successful with your research.

    I am sure that you will find it most interesting and satifying.

    Regards
    Tom
     
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  18. Sarah1403

    Sarah1403 Junior Member

    Thank you for the replies, the more information I find out about my grandad the clearer the picture becomes. I can't wait to share this with my dad and when it becomes available to me, to compare your comments with his service records. I just wish I had more photographs of him and information.

    Thank you too for the warm welcome I have recieved and all the help with my search. I look forward to sharing my grandad's service record with you all and finding out even more about his time in the war.

    For the time being i'll keep on searching :)

    Sarah :)
     
  19. Sarah1403

    Sarah1403 Junior Member

    Hello All,

    Well after a very eventful year I can finally get round to asking you all for some more help, if you can :) I hope you can. The files are pretty big, so i'll try my best to upload all that I can. But finally after waiting nearly a years, I recieved my Grandad's service record. The only problem is, I have no idea where to start decoding it or even the slightest idea of what it could mean. I've tried searching for his regt but I can't seem to find anything :(

    Please, if anyone can be of any help at all, I would be very very grateful.

    Thank you

    Sarah :) 001 (10).jpg 002 (8).jpg
     
  20. Sarah1403

    Sarah1403 Junior Member

    More images..... 007 (3).jpg 005 (3).jpg 006 (3).jpg

    Thank you :)
     

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