William Ernest Brown 1942-1947 R.A

Discussion in 'Royal Artillery' started by Sarah1403, Feb 5, 2012.

  1. Sarah1403

    Sarah1403 Junior Member

    More files.... 018.jpg 008 (2).jpg 003 (6).jpg 004 (5).jpg 009 (2).jpg 010 (3).jpg 011 (3).jpg 014 (2).jpg 015.jpg 016.jpg
     
  2. Sarah1403

    Sarah1403 Junior Member

    And finally this one, a bit tricky to resize, but hopefully still big enough to read :)

    I really hope there is someone here that can help me with any sort of information. My dad and I are very keen to find out more about his time during WW2 and any stories that may unfold.

    I feel a little bad asking about all this, as my grandad did not speak to me or my dad (his only son) about the war. He kept that part of himself very private and as he died when I was young I can't ask him the questions I'd like to. I hope that he would want to share this part of his life with me by now. So I hope i'm not dis-respecting his memory by trying to find out things he didnt want to talk about. He was to me a very great man and I love the pictures I have of him, and would like to know more about him.

    I hope someone will answer my post

    Thank you

    Sarah :)

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  3. Tom Canning

    Tom Canning WW2 Veteran WW2 Veteran

    Sarah

    First thing to do is to quit worrying as it will all be sorted out before you know it..now I shall print the copies out to-night ( saturday ) but busy until wednesday when I shall have look and get back

    to you hopefully making sense out of it all - knowing that the others will clamp down on me if I make too many errors...

    Cheers
     
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  4. Sarah1403

    Sarah1403 Junior Member

    I can't thank you enough Tom for your speedy reply! My worrying is over :) thank you very much for offering your help :) I'll look forward to hearing from you.

    Very grateful

    Sarah :)
     
  5. Tullybrone

    Tullybrone Senior Member

    Hi Sarah,

    I wouldn't dare tread on Tom Canning's toes but would just mention that the first document you attached last night is the top portion of the pre discharge medical examination form for your grandfather. It is referred to as a WF 3139, I think, on the last page of his B103 form as taking place in May 1947.

    I got the full 2 sided form from Coldstream Guards when I got my Dad's papers last year. I presume MOD have only let you have the portion attached due to "Data Protection" as bottom portion contains some personal medical information.

    I have never seen a record showing a call up for post war training - I see mention of training in 1952? Presumably due to the then ongoing Korean War?

    I can't see any mention of a medal entitlement so would suggest 1939/45 Star, France & Germany Star, Defence Medal & War Medal - total 4 medals for wartime service. I think he may also be entitled to the 1945/48 Palestine General service Medal.

    Regards

    Steve Y
     
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  6. Tom Canning

    Tom Canning WW2 Veteran WW2 Veteran

    Steve Y

    Don't worry about stepping on my toes - they are already flat - but you raise a point which has been bugging me inasmuch as he trod my path in joining on Dec 3rd '42 and demob in May '47 as we shared the same age grouping of 50….I was recalled for Korea BUT somehow he was sent to the Middle East - before Korea - and credited with an extra 20 months service..but early days as yet and it might come out in the wash..seems odd though

    Cheers
     
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  7. Sarah1403

    Sarah1403 Junior Member

    Thanks for the feedback, as i said earlier, I am at a total loss and he never really spoke about his time in the army, so i'm only working with the records I have obtained (and that I don't really understand yet) and a few pictures of his time there. I know he rode a motorcycle and contracted TB and spent time in a TB camp, but not sure what year that was. But other than that, we have no medals and very little information as he and my nan (his wife) are deceased.

    I wasn't aware of any time he might have served in Korea, but my dad told me he went to Palestine.

    Thank you for your help :) 19-04-2011 11;06;01_1.JPG 19-04-2011 11;06;01.JPG 01-06-2011 12;45;33_2.JPG 01-06-2011 12;25;02_1.JPG 01-06-2011 12;21;36_2.JPG 01-06-2011 11;58;26_4.JPG 01-06-2011 11;58;26_1.JPG
     
  8. Tullybrone

    Tullybrone Senior Member

    Hi Sarah,

    I'm not saying he went to Korea - it isn't on his record - rather that the reason he was recalled for training in 1952 was the ongoing Korean War.

    Steve Y
     
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  9. Sarah1403

    Sarah1403 Junior Member

    Ah, right! Sorry I must have mis-read. He married my nan in 1954 and my dad was born in 1958. I'd be interested to find out why he went for training too.

    Sarah :)
     
  10. Tom Canning

    Tom Canning WW2 Veteran WW2 Veteran

    Sarah

    As promised here is how I read your G'Father's service - not too easy but fairly typical messy records with many gaps here and there but not too surprising for the amount of changing that went

    on - bit dubious of how he managed LIAP after so short a time overseas as both Ron and I spent nearly three years before we saw home again but that is probably the luck of the draw -and so soon

    before release…someone wasn't thinking too hard…if at all

    3 Dec '42 - enlisted at Carlisle to 868 PTW
    13 Jan -'43 -Posted to 50 A/Tanks - Carlisle
    25 Jan -'43 -Posted to 94 A/Tanks - Church Stretton
    25 May -'43 - Posted to 302 A/Tanks - Great Yarmouth
    5 Aug - '43 - Posted to 64A/Tanks at Wick
    27 Aug -'43 - slightly injured
    23 Au - '43 reclassified to Class 1 rates of pay

    BIG GAP

    21May -'45 - Posted to 45 RHQ - and X(Viii) ( waiting another posting
    7 June - '45 - embarked from NWE to UK
    8 June '45 - TOS X(Viii) - then to base depot
    10 - July-'45 - posted to Combine ops unit
    28 - Sep -'45 - Classified A1 by E.N.T/ Specialist
    28 - sep '45 - Posted to 12 Med Regt RA
    8 Oct -'45 - NOT CLEAR ...

    ANOTHER BIG GAP

    12- Dec '45 - embarked draft Raboo
    22 - Dec'45 -Disemb at MEF to base depot
    17 Jan '46 - Posted to 571 S.L btty from depot
    11-Feb - '46 - Appointed Acting - unpaid lance Corporal
    17-June - '46 - reduced to ranks as improperly dressed

    YET ANOTHER BIG GAP

    3 jan -'47 - TOS - X(ii) sick bay at Haifa
    8 Jan '47 - RTU 'd to 571 S/L unit
    10 Jan '47 - LIAP..very odd as little time overseas
    25 Feb '47 - returned to MEF
    28 - feb -'47 - release orders - even more odd …!
    17 - April - '47 - back in Uk to 67 Training regt
    23 - May - '47 - Released on Class "A" ZT reserve from York - same day as I was released … to "Y" list as unemployed !

    Now this is where it has me scratching my head as he is credited with serving for five years and 20 days whereas I joined th same day and was released on the same day and credited with4 years
    and 152 days..very odd - BUT he was recalled in 1952 to serve in Towyn with 248 LAA unit for 90 days - and I also was recalled for korea but my WW2 wounds kicked in and thus was cancelled ….

    so where did the other 18 months appear to be served as my thinking is that someone made a boo boo in their maths - or he was up to something elsewhere with NO record..very odd

    Cheers
     
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  11. Tom Canning

    Tom Canning WW2 Veteran WW2 Veteran

    Sarah

    Medals for G'father - looks like 1939/45 Star - F & G Star - Defence Medal and 1939/45 Medal - too late for Africa Star and no where near Italy for their star but possibly some form of medal for Palestine in1945/46

    Cheers
     
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  12. Sarah1403

    Sarah1403 Junior Member

    Wow! Thank you so much :) Could I ask, where would you recommend I start with my searching now I have this information? I'm not sure how I find out more about where he served and what sort of things he might have been doing. I was talking to my dad last night and he said there was this story he remembers his mum telling him about my grandad driving someone important into the Belsen camp during the time of liberation. How would I know if that is true?

    Thank you so much for all your help, it's so bizarre to be talking to someone who was so closely linked to my grandad and yet you never met each other. It is a small world.

    Sarah :)
     
  13. Tom Canning

    Tom Canning WW2 Veteran WW2 Veteran

    Sarah
    Had to search through the members list as the thread seemingly has disappeared from the Forum and Portal list - which I find odd - but it's only the internet etc ….

    It will not be easy to trace as there are so many Gaps in his records especially his time in the NWE areas which would include the Belsen saga - I have to assume that Glasgow sent a full list initially

    and they have been lost in your Father's care - probably still in his loft as it is quite a jump from 1943 to 1945 when a great deal of action was happening - and we have NO record of it..so it will be

    very difficult - and expensive - to trace the war diaries of each of the units he served in……so I am at a loss to advise you further….possibly some others can provide a solution….so Good Luck

    with your research...

    Cheers
     
    Sarah1403 likes this.
  14. Sarah1403

    Sarah1403 Junior Member

    Hi Tom,

    Everything that was sent to me from Glasgow, I have scanned and uploaded, but I will have a look at the information again and see if there is any more parts that I could have missed. Since you're telling me there are big gaps, I may have missed some parts while scanning. If you can see, I have also uploaded his service and release book, which I have in my posession. These are the only actual documents I have that pertain to my grandad's time in the army. So maybe the page was lost in the original documents, or not copied when it was complied and sent to me. I hope that maybe someone will see these posts and be able to make connections.

    Also, at the risk of sounding foolish, could I ask what 'NWE' stands for, I must admit a lot of the military jargon is baffling me.

    Thank you for your help Tom, you've been amazing :)

    Sarah :)
     
  15. Tricky Dicky

    Tricky Dicky Don'tre member

    All,

    I would like to say here that from my fathers service records obtained this year from Glasgow, there is nothing written in them between June 1942 and July 1945. Why there is this gap we will never know.

    In order to fill this gap I have asked Drew to copy his regimental diaries from TNA, hoping they will tell me what he was up to, or at least his regiment.


    TD
     
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  16. Tom Canning

    Tom Canning WW2 Veteran WW2 Veteran

    Sarah

    The initials NWE = North West Europe - or the France and Germany campaign - which started off in June '44 as the BLA - British Liberation Army ( which we in Italy referred to as the British Leave Army as they seems to get leave every

    week -end ) - and finally ended as the BAOR = British Army on Rhine……we went through much the same nonsense in Africa when the 1st Army joined the 8th Army - we were then called the 18th Army group ( rocket science stuff )

    Then in Sicily we had joined the 8th Army with 7th US army = 15th Army group….then Italy with 8th Army and 5th US Army …oops 13th - can't have that..so back to 15th Army group BUT the Americans didn'like that so we became AA 1 =

    Allied Army 1 ….but we didn't like that so we settled for 15th Army group in CMF - Central Mediterranean Force as opposed to BNAF = Brit Army North Africa and MEF = Middle East Force or PAIF = Palestine and Irag Force…then Somaliland

    so don't ask how we managed to win the war with all the name changing as I do not know

    Cheers
     
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  17. Sarah1403

    Sarah1403 Junior Member

    Tricky Dicky - comforting to kow i'm not the only one with gaps in records, but it's a bit rubbish there has to be gaps, all this research is complicated enough without parts being missing. I'm not even sure what regiment my grandad properly belonged to, as he never spoke about his time in the army, expect a few stories which my dad and I spoke about recently.

    Tom - I can see i'm going to have my work cut out trying to figure all this stuff out, it gets more and more complicated the deeper into my research. But thank you for the explainations, i'll keep them for reference while I look through information. It must have been difficult to keep track of who you were by the end.

    Sarah :)
     
  18. Tom Canning

    Tom Canning WW2 Veteran WW2 Veteran

    Sarah

    Wasn't a big problem as by the end we were in the Allied Occupation Army of Austria and knew that soon we would be going home at last - didn't happen of course until 1947

    Cheers
     
  19. Sarah1403

    Sarah1403 Junior Member

    As a young person, I thought the war was over by 1945, as I grew up, I soon realised what was involved afterwards. One of the reasons I'm so keen to find out more about my grandad's actions and experiences.

    Thank you

    Sarah :)
     
  20. Sarah1403

    Sarah1403 Junior Member

    Hello all,

    I am picking up where I left off in 2013! A little older and none the wiser i'm afraid! haha! I was hoping that if i were to breathe some life into this old post that it may yeild some more results or that information that wasn't available then might be available now. I have looked through the amazing amount of information you've all managed to gift me so far and im afraid i'm coming up with more questions. I have a feeling that may remain the case.

    My dad has told me that my grandad was a Donar/donor? which meant that he rode a motorcycle during the war?, which would explain the pictures I have of him. However, as I look online, when I typed in Donar/donor it is the type of motorcycle he might have ridden, possibly the one in my profile picture. My motorcycle knowledge is lacking also. When I speak to my dad about my grandad, i get the impression that a lot of what he told my dad about the war, he was driving some sort of truck or motorcycle. I remember very little of my grandfather as he died when I was 8 years old. but he wasnt a very well man, i'm not sure of the dates but he contracted TB towards the end of the war (my dad seems to think this might have some connection with Belsen Camp???) and he had to stay in one of those TB hospitals, although i'm not sure of those exact dates. I wonder if that could explain the reason he was sent on leave and why some of his record is missing? due to it being a medical record?

    Could any of this additional information point me in a new direction or perhaps does anyone know of any new records that might be accessible that deal with any of my grandads record?

    As always any information or theories anyone may have of the subject would be really wonderful.

    Thank you

    Sarah :)
     

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