As for point three I can clarify that the 158 was widened into a dual carriage way in the early 80s I believe, but that it was the eastern side that was widened. The Farm yard on the eastern side of Garmesnil as well as a cottage and an orchard were demolished to make room. Thanks for the notes, Jay. I assumed that the single-carriageway road to the east of the dual carriageway was the original. It just seems a little odd that one incontrovertible fact - where the bodies were found - doesn't seem to be mentioned anywhere, even though the German war graves people ought to have a record. My something's-not-right sense is still tingling, but I can't figure out why... even though I know this has been researched to death.
Looks like all the Q's may be answered here? http://www.ww2talk.com/forum/books-films-tv/15924-whats-tv-today-6.html#post254371
This documentary is also on YouTube in five parts. It's my question of the location of Wittmann's grave - it wasn't 'by the roadside' nor 'found during the construction of the new road', it was 'near the Tiger's location'.
I saw a programme yesterday (15th Jan) on a Discovery or History Channel attributing the "kill" to a Canadian Sherman. I don't know if it's available on Catch Up or it may be repeated again (some seem to turn up a day or so later) shortly, so perhaps worth looking out for?? Thought it worth mentioning.......... Edit: Doh!! Just seen Drew5233 posting.... the programme is "Battlefield Mysteries".............
Caught that last night and enjoyed watching it, the collection passed on to the local land owner was really something worth seeing. Wittmann's grave has indeed become something more than a grave and as the narrator said we should be mindful of whom he served and yet behind this is the loss of lives , ultimately it was all a waste and the rose tinted spectacles should be left behind when viewing the grave of the crew. As the point was made - in contrast how many people visit the grave of the others killed on that same day - probably no one.
I missed part of the documentary, am I right that Wittmans body was not found until the 1980s with other Panzer crews in a field close to were he's tank was blown up?
That is correct Medic, also from the documentary it said that it would have been one hell of a lucky shot for the Yeomanry Firefly to have taken out Wittmans Tiger as it would have been nearly a kilometer away 1000m.....yes it was possible to kill with the 17pdr at a range of 1200m but a highly unlikely shot as Wittmans Tiger would have been down a slope because of the lay of the land and very little would have been visible. The Canadians on the other hand would have had a clear shot at about 140 metres and from the damage from the photos the main damage came from the rear left of the Tiger just behind the Turret ring and the flames caused the Ammo to expode... But shit we were not there and only those who were will know for sure..... Who ever it was has the greatest admiration for even taking a Tiger on... Regards Lee
In George G. Blackburn’s, The Guns of Normandy, he makes reference to a Military Medal won at Cramesnil on August 8th, 1944 by Captain William James ‘Bill’ Waddell. The 4th Field Regiment supported the Royal Regiment of Canada throughout the Normandy campaign and Waddell was the FOO during the Totalize offensive. In Blackburn’s description, the decoration was won on the morning of the 8th, “when two Panthers and two Tigers move up on the Caen-Falaise highway, and another group of them on the far side of Cramesnil opens fire. Firing heavily, several actually penetrate to within a few yards of the Royals’ tac headquarters, which is on the east side of the road. On the west side, is the Royals’ mortar platoon, along with some carriers and medium machine guns of the Toronto Scottish. All are still digging in when, suddenly, screeching, armour-piercing shots begin hitting the Scottish carriers. Then one after another the Royals’ mortar platoon carriers are hit. As the carriers take fire, mortar bombs begin to blow up and the Germans spray the area with machine gun fire. The Tor Scots lose all their carriers and medium machine guns, and all seven of the Royals’ carriers, along with all their mortars and ammunition, are destroyed. In the midst of this threatening uproar, which grows more dangerous by the minute, Bill Waddell, the 4th Field FOO with the leading company, pinpoints the location of the German tanks and goes back on foot to lead a troop of the Sherbrooke Fusiliers tanks into position where they can get clear shots at them. And when he gets them close enough to be effective he directs their fire, knocking out at least four. Major Ralph Young, second-in-command of the Royals’, an eye witness to Waddell’s heroism, will have difficulty later (even forty years later) finding words to describe it. “This guy is standing out in the open, all by his bloody self, pointing out a German tank here, another there, yelling at our tanks, ‘Hit the goddamn thing! Those are his fire orders.’ With him pointing and the tanks shooting, they knock out two self-propelled guns and two tanks.” Accounts of the action at Cramesnil on the 8th almost always focus on the death of Wittmann. That, of course, seemingly occurred later in the day (1pm) and I have yet to find any material which provides an overall context to the attacks on Cramesnil from the morning through to the afternoon of the 8th. The attacking German unit and the troop from the SF are not identified.
Cash13 - Lee - that sounds funny as we had to take on Tigers - and Panthers with six pounder guns and the odd 75mm - no 17 pounders anywhere near us at that time- never did see one on a Tank In Italy ...our best bet was to sneak around the back of them and give them one up the exhaust pipe- wasn't always easy with a 40 Ton Churchill Cheers Cheers
Caught that last night and enjoyed watching it, the collection passed on to the local land owner was really something worth seeing. Wittmann's grave has indeed become something more than a grave and as the narrator said we should be mindful of whom he served and yet behind this is the loss of lives , ultimately it was all a waste and the rose tinted spectacles should be left behind when viewing the grave of the crew. As the point was made - in contrast how many people visit the grave of the others killed on that same day - probably no one. Absolutely correct, James. This was Wittman's grave when I first visited La Cambe. The grass worn away in a path to the grave, the Iron Cross with hakenkreutz (I don't know much - sorry, anything about German medals) all made it look rather like a shrine.
No harm, to whoever left the "Iron Cross" on the grave of the crew, seeing the hakenkreutz / swastika whilst thinking of the 20,000 plus men buried in la cambe - well stuff the party is all I can say.
In 2010 I visited Wittmann's grave and where he died :- 49°04'00.25"N 000°17'31.05"W - Google Maps & Photo:- http://i.imgur.com/Lq3ox.jpg
Sadly, Wittman's gravesite probably receives far more visitors than his young, volunteer opponents who also gave their lives on August 8th. Some of them lie interred less than 500 metres from the place where the Sherbrookes, very likely, ended his life. Uncle Francis Grave Site Trooper Quann RIP
Ah, but the others were not dressed by Hugo Boss! True, more like the Salvation Army. Image is everything it would appear.
You still find young frenchguys to bring fresh flowers on this man's grave,while ,as you said Canuck,the real heroes that made us free, are lying not far from him,and they disserve more admiration than this convinced nazi.
WITTMAN'S LAST BATTLE by Poor Old Spike All 4 Tigers of panzer ace Michael Wittman's group were knocked out, a Brit Firefly got 3, and Canadian Sher 75mm's got a 4th, which was probably Wittmans. MAP: Strategic situation two weeks before the engagement south of Caen (blue circle)- Below: yellow line is approx front line- 1- Wittman's group of 4x Tigers drives north towards Caen (red circles indicate where they were knocked out) 2- They come under longrange fire from Brit Shermans,one of which is a Firefly whose gunner Joe Ekins brews 3 of the Tigers, one of which may or may not have been Wittmans. 3- At the same time Canadian Sher 75mm's begin firing at short range into the Tigers side armour but claim no kills, although one (possibly Wittmans) was seen to blow up later as if an earlier Canadian penetration may have started a slow-burning fire. To add to the confusion, it's also been said that an Allied rocket-firing fighter-bomber may have hit one of the Tigers. This view is taken looking East from the road smack between the Canadians and the Tigers, X marks the spot in the field where Wittmans Tiger was knocked out. Joe Ekin's Firefly was in the treeline on the horizon just to the right of the white building- Panorama from the same spot: NORTH TOWARDS CAEN AND THE ALLIED LINES WEST TOWARDS CANADIAN LINES SOUTH TOWARDS GERMAN LINES Firefly gunner Joe Ekins (below) got 3x Tigers out of 4 which was a fantastic piece of longrange shooting regardless of whether or not Wittman was in one of them. Ekins quote- "I was sort of thinking 'Get the ba*tards before they get me....Anybody who goes into another persons country to kill is a criminal. He [Wittman] might have been a hero to the Germans, but not to me" VID:-EKINS TELLS HOW HE DID IT- WW2 german tiger tank ace Michael Wittmann last battle +his grave 6min - YouTube A Firefly. It's 17-pdr gun made it the hardest-hitting Allied tank of WW2 until the late arrival of the M26 Pershing
Ekins is a kind of hero for me,with this particular sort of detachement that makes him so an allied icon!
Ekins, or perhaps some anonymous colonial from A Squadron of the Sherbrooke Fusiliers. 1/5 Michael Wittmanns Last-Battle - YouTube#!
